Ying | Non-sense opened this issue
Marty Birdman
User Reports
Medium
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User Report: 76561198328486245 (♡ ℕℴ ℳყ

This guy tried to scam my keys and max hat by creating a fake photo of my bot accepting an "unfair trade" which he claimed he wants to get the max hat. Since he saw me that I do refunds when it is an unfair trade, he attempted to scam me and add me for the "refund", which is just a scamming method.

Chat log : https://imgur.com/a/hP4Jagp

1st image he sent me: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/952973667475028674/46938912A4B9955CAB58DB070D925DC3FD55AF20/

2nd image he sent me: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/952973667475030303/94DCADC3E3E67E7A209493152F46B209D2FC740B/

noticed that the partner of the trade isn't my bot: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198850266056/

3rd image: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/952973667475032853/0027ADC0D5B60E5475FF305F334C190A2498D6F4/

4th image: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/952973667475034262/C7223F02726FBAC4BD78DAF7A2BA44B5D7A94D93/

(This image is most probably fake as I checked my bot about its trade offer page: https://imgur.com/a/LNmH6vr) that clearly he cancelled the trade.

Please let me know if there are any things I need to add for the evidence. Thank you

Tags
#invalid
  • Avatar
    Daddy Alex commented

    That would be a pretty weak scam attempt so maybe the reported account is a victim of "Stolen API key" scam: https://marketplace.tf/blog/posts/YHLZOB


    Usually you wouldn't see even a cancelled offer but maybe the scammer's software wasn't fast enough and made the victim confirm offer twice.

  • Avatar
    Marty Birdman commented · Marty Birdman edited

    Please go to https://help.steampowered.com/en/accountdata/GetFriendMessagesLog and take a single screenshot of part of your conversation with them. Do this in a web browser rather than Steam client, and hover your mouse over the name of the user you are interacting with so that their profile URL displays in the lower left hand corner of the screen. Do not crop or edit it in any way, and upload it to an image hosting service (imgur, for example) and post the link here. This will help us confirm that the user you are interacting with is the same user shown in the screenshots already provided.


    Please also provide uncropped/unedited screenshot proof of your bot's complete trade history from the beginning of the 22nd of December through the end of the 24th of December.

  • Avatar
    Ying | Non-sense commented · Ying | Non-sense edited

    Updated: Chat Log: https://imgur.com/a/Adnn7MG


    Sorry, I don't think I can trace back to my bot trade history on 22nd December considering it probably already went through more than 2000 trades already. Can someone tell me a way to actually track back?


    Edit 1: Finally screenshot all the trades from 22nd to 24th December, in a total of 238 photos, here is the link for that: https://imgur.com/a/g73ELsy

  • Avatar
    Ying | Non-sense commented

    Is all of the screenshot valid or anything I need to follow up?

  • Avatar Marty Birdman assigned this issue to themselves
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    Marty Birdman commented

    I appreciate your following up on this report, and the evidence presented is as requested. However, in reviewing what happened here, I believe the most likely reason for this situation is what Alex described above, that the user who contacted you had been the victim of phishing and interference with their trade offers, and did not understand what had happened. It would account for the consecutive trade offers that you did receive from their account, their confusion as to whether you had two bots or one, and the images they showed you that were of offers clearly not sent to your account. In all likelihood, the accepted trade offer where they lost their items would have originally looked like it went to you, but those accounts change name and picture constantly to intercept offers from various different users, and they likely still thought it was your "bot" even after it changed identity. Not coincidentally, they did actually lose all items of value from their inventory at the same time as their contact with you occurred, further evidence that they were probably the victim of a scam themselves. While they were clearly mistaken that you had accepted any offer of theirs made in error, I cannot classify your interaction with them as a scam attempt on their part - rather they did not understand the situation at hand. As a result, this report will be archived.

  • Avatar Marty Birdman set the issue's status to Closed
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    Ying | Non-sense commented

    I am afraid that is not the current situation, Marty. I totally understand what is the phishing method and I checked the marketplace.tf post as well, yet, it seems that he didn't lose his items, he just transfers it to an alt to make it seems like his account got hijacked.


    "Not coincidentally, they did actually lose all items of value from their inventory at the same time as their contact with you occurred, further evidence that they were probably the victim of a scam themselves."

    I assumed what you mean is the Strange Frying Pan, Strange Weight Room Warmer, and the Earbud with few other cosmetics got "phished" by the hacker/phisher. However, I would like to point out that it seems all those items were "restored" and surprisingly they have the same id. I don't think that the scammer would really give him back the items when they got them so as this case. Perhaps it might be, but what you saying about 'cannot classify your interaction with them as a scam attempt on their part - rather they did not understand the situation at hand' part will create a loophole for all scammer claiming themselves as the victim of this kind of phisher scam again.


    Several proofs of his backpack history: https://imgur.com/a/hsv3cmO

    Ghastlierest Gibus with 2 exact same spells: (before): https://imgur.com/L6z0hP9 (after): https://imgur.com/0XWEvtI

    The Earbud: https://imgur.com/a/93h9wcG

    Strange Weight Room Warmer with exact same paint: https://imgur.com/a/SUiLKBL (also Without item history of the phisher)

    Strange Professional Killstreak Frying Pan: https://imgur.com/a/vsF2dQM (Without item history of the phisher)


    I hope you can reopen the case and look into the points I just make. Thank you.

    Y.

  • Avatar Ying | Non-sense set the issue's status to Open
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    Marty Birdman commented

    Your point that they appear to have their lost items back is accurate. It is also impossible to say exactly where they were during the time they were gone, but it is certainly unrealistic that a scammer would have just given them back. However, it does not resolve all my concerns with respect to this report.


    The other problem here is that the alleged scam attempt is not really strong enough for us to ban for. The user is asking you for a refund that you do not owe them, it is easy for you to demonstrate that no refund is owed, and they make no effort to further demand or extort payment from you when rebuked - whether they have been the victim of a scam themselves or not, your conversation with them reads as a user who is mistaken being corrected moreso than as a user who is making a concerted effort to deceive you. I don't agree with the argument that judging this not to be a scam attempt creates a significant loophole of any kind, as we do not have a precedent for banning users who ask for refunds that they are not owed, and this is neither a common problem nor an effective method of scamming anyone.


    So while I appreciate your point that my conjecture that they are themselves a victim is not without room for doubt, it doesn't change my stance on whether or not a ban should be issued here. I don't think there is enough in their conversation with you to warrant it either way.

  • Avatar Marty Birdman set the issue's status to Closed
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    Ying | Non-sense commented · Ying | Non-sense edited

    Thanks for reviewing the case again.


    Maybe my explanation isn't clear enough, my point of the "loophole' is, it could create a huge problem to those bot owners that are kind enough to refund, like me and many more. Usually, we do require some sort of screenshots of the trade to prove that the trade actually goes through and the bot did actually take the items with any keys or metal that supposed to be taken. But noticed that, the user, in this case, send me two separate screenshots (https://imgur.com/a/AGyO5Py) through steam making it look like one and that my bot is 'taking' items from the user. Any bot owners that are not careful as I am would most probably be faked by his screenshot, proceeding to send the keys before realizing they are scammed.


    The definition of a scam is that 'an illegal plan for making money, especially one that involves tricking people'. In this case, the user was tricking me into that I should give him a refund by sending me fake screenshots/irrelevant screenshots with my bot name and logo. This is very similar to impersonator scam, which scammer impersonate others to trick them giving their items. Only because I did not fall for the scam attempt did not make it not a scam. I understand backpack.tf may not have precedent for banning users who ask for refunds that they are not owed, but I do think this should not be taken into account as every scam method starts from somewhere and I do not think actions should be taken only when people actually fell for the scam.


    Any logical person would usually send a complete screenshot and add the 'bot' that accepted the trade, not my bot. I think what happened here is that the user got phished/scammed and try to compensate his lost by contacting me for the refund.


    The reason why I think the user 'lost' his item is that to prove that he is the victim of this phishing scam, after seeing the report is closed, he relieves and restores every item back to his backpack again. It makes sense that the user would want to transfer his items away before the day he contacts me as to create confusion and the afraid of getting his account banned. Then, right after the case closed, he transferred all of his 'lost' items back and using them once again.


    Edit 1: points to add


    Y.

  • Avatar Ying | Non-sense set the issue's status to Open
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    Marty Birdman commented

    I don't see any evidence in the screenshots sent to you that supports that they were faked - I believe they are genuine, and that the account shown in them simply isn't yours. I also think you need to re-consider some of what took place here. If you interpret this as a scam attempt, why would they first send you an image of a trade accepted by what looks like a scrap.tf bot? I also don't find it surprising that they would contact your bot, if they didn't understand what had happened to them, and your bot was the account they had actually been trying to trade with. Moreover, it appears that they transferred their items back to their main the day before I closed this report, according to the date they are first seen in their backpack image again - if I had checked their inventory again before I closed your report initially, I actually could have noticed this. This does not support the narrative that they were pretending to be a scam victim until the report was resolved. I agree with you that they were probably phished - it seems that their keys and metal were all that was lost, likely because their other items had been traded to a different account prior to their account becoming compromised. However, I don't think your exchange with them shows them trying to scam you as retribution. You are free to interpret your conversation with them differently than I do, but based on the evidence shown here they will not be banned.

  • Avatar Marty Birdman set the issue's status to Closed