Price Suggestion
~18 keys
n&b
Unusual Anger Nuts n' Bolts
1009 votes up
891 votes down
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This suggestion was accepted by [GIRL] Mr. Bucket.

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Comments

3 month old, it's worth refreshing. I don't do suggestions often, but I have a lot of screenshots to share for this one.


I buy an unusual Anger everytime I'm angry at someone, and this month has been tough as you can tell from below.


Solds:

Sale 1 (23.8 keys)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/18627067#p58939143

Proof: https://www.dropbox.com/s/or1hc43fa7r6o2i/Screenshot%202014-09-21%2014.37.30.png?dl=0


Sale 2 (23.8 keys)

Proof: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b0u0hxii0cc6qpi/Screenshot%202014-09-21%2014.37.53.png?dl=0


Sale 3 (23.8 keys)

Proof: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zln6ednse4ep13j/Screenshot%202014-09-21%2014.38.03.png?dl=0


Sale 4 (22 keys)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/22720972

Proof: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c7p61xruxmml476/Screenshot%202014-09-21%2014.35.01.png?dl=0


Sale 5 (20 keys => 13 keys + white Bill's counted as 7 keys during trade) - Quicksell

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19467430

Proof: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv3up6nwhcky9t1/Screenshot%202014-09-21%2014.34.56.png?dl=0


I bought all of these personally, I'm not sure if there's a rule against that. I was using the current range, and I'm just refreshing it. Since all trades were made with keys, not buds, I suggested the price in keys. I can resuggest in buds if that's the correct way.

    1. Just a little confused since you said you were quickbuying in your outpost trade but you bought them at the/more than the current price.

    2. You could have just converted the key prices into buds. I would say 1.3-1.4 is still accurate

      1- True, I am quickbuying in my trade, but that doesn't mean I have to decline every non-quickbuy offer.

      2- Yes, as I mentioned, I did it because the sales did not involve any buds. The range is still the same. Since buds keep changing in price, I thought it would be more appropriate to list it in keys. I can still resuggest if a mod thinks that's more appropriate.

        Non unusual items that are worth more than what a Bud is worth should be priced in the currency it is most commonly traded in.


        For example, the Strange Kritzekrieg is priced in Keys since it is most commonly traded in Keys. The Australium Scattergun is priced in Buds because It is most commonly traded in either Buds or unusuals.


        With unusuals it's a whole diffrent story, most unusuals are traded for other unusuals, and thoose unusuals are priced in Buds therefore their price will change like Buds will and unusuals should always be priced in Buds.

        This is completely outrageous, and very offensive. You're blatantly accusing me.

        Please watch your tongue.

      proof looks good, upvote!

        owns 4, downvote.

        jk

        Proof looks good

          I am not sure why these 2 guys above are getting hammered. If you have something to say, please say it here.

            Chances are because they have similar OCU tags and they are saying its a good suggestion. Noone likes it when they get their friends to hype up their own suggestion. Even if it isnt the case the implications are quite obvious

              I see. Well, I have many friends, and there are hundreds of people with = ocu = tag. In this case, the two people that commented are my friends, but I don't see why it matters when the proof is concrete, I did not ask them to come here and comment, and I cannot ask them to not do it either. Some people are just intolerant I guess, or perhaps similar things happened too many times in the past.


              Please vote on the suggestion based on the content of the suggestion, and content of comments. Not on who's making them.

                You also own 4 of them, so it's a combination of things.

                  That is because I bought them, and I am listing them as proof. That's the whole reason I made this suggestion, I wanted to share this information. Is there a rule against that?

                    No, of course not, but have you seen if there are any other recent sales, since there are more than 30 of these things? If there are, they should be included in the range.

                      I think 5 sales is good enough for updating the price of an unusual hat. It's price is not even changing. Feel free to contribute with counter evidence.

                        Thats not the point. The reason there's so much content is that you are really only going off what u paid and not what the entirety of the market is paying. If you want to make a more legitimate (and more hate free) suggestion you need to add sales from other people, not yourself. Furthermore it has nothing to do with if u ask or dont ask them to comment. Fact is, theyre your buddies and it just doesnt look good when they're the only ones commenting

                          I see your point. But again, this is sufficient proof, in fact it is more than most other unusual suggestions. If there is counterproof, please present it, I will gladly change the suggestion based on those. I do not have the time or motivation to look for other sales.


                          I don't want to argue anymore about friends and names, you're right about that. But again, I did not invite them, and I cannot stop them from commenting either.

                I have made many unusual suggestions in the past and I commented the way I did because simply, his proof is solid. If his proof did was not support the fact that a change is needed on this hat's price, I would've commented otherwise.

              I'm pretty sure that 1.3-1.4 buds are 1.35 buds, so 22-24 keys is the same as 1.3-1.4 buds? I'm not getting this

                If you're talking about why bp.tf shows a different price, I don't know.


                If you're asking why I made this suggestion in the first place, it is to refresh the 3 month old price.

                Why are you updating the price in keys? This does not need to be priced in keys.

                  Because I only paid with keys, not buds. Moreover, the price of Earbuds is not constant with respect to keys. So why introduce more uncertainty? This was my thought.


                  I also said if it is more appropriate to suggest in buds, then I could do that as well.

                    Yup, I didn't even notice it was strange until after I purchased it. I don't usually deal with strange hats, and I'm not sure how much it affects an unusual's price.

                      Generally, strange unusuals don't get their strange value added on but it's never happened because there's never really been a case of a cheap enough unusual that is strange get priced with that as proof.


                      However, I don't think it matters. Ask a mod if you're really unsure, but there's never been a case where in a suggestion, value is added onto an unusual because it's strange.

                        Hm, should have use buds as it's price instead of keys to be honest.

                        Strange unusual does not really mean anything. It doesn't add any certain value or anything like that.

                        quickbuyers shouldn't be used as proof

                          Should Be Lowered Because Its Practiaclly Proven That No One Will Have It Atm But It Should Be Lowered to 18-20 keys

                            Wait, what? What's practically proven? Why is it being lowered, when all the sales are at the same level? You make no sense.

                            I am very confused..

                            There are 36of these in game, 4 with twp, where are the other 32?

                            No sellers on outpost..very odd

                              4 sellers on scm, and that leaves 28. Why none on outpost...

                                5 of them are with the suggester, and most likely rest are on collector's backpack/dead account/lost in the Sahara desert.

                                  28 NnB unusuals in collectors backpacks.. I can believe may be 5, but not 28 lol (specially considering its just nnb)

                                  Because I purchased them all using the current price range, and then re-suggested.

                                owns 5 (bp doesnt include the strange one)

                                  Yes, and I provided proof for that one as well.

                                  22-24 Keys is 1.3-1.4 Buds, no point converting it.

                                  Downvote.

                                    This is not merely a conversion, it's a refresh.

                                      Then why is it not priced in buds?

                                        I have answered that question a few times already in this suggestion. Please read.

                                      It's amazing how butthurt everyone gets when someone prices something in keys rather than buds. I don't think you guys understand, these sales were for keys / metal, not buds. Currency used is based on what something sells for.

                                        One of his friends previously commented on his other suggestion saying "Proof looks good, upvote" When he didn't even have a backpack value high enough to vote. Now THAT'S what I call biased opinion.

                                          Seriously? I don't think you even know how to check a user's backpack history. That friend of mine had more than enough to vote for the item in his backpack at the time of the suggestion. Why are you even browsing suggestions?


                                          There are a lot of people that look up to me, and follow my activity. You clearly have no idea whatsoever about who I am and what my motives are.


                                          Please do everyone a favor and don't make unnecessary comments in suggestions.

                                            I seemed pretty important to note since it would mean your friends stalk your suggestions and just say "Good proof upvote" on all of them. That would be a very good thing to take note of since people are angry at your friends for commenting in the first place. Sorry if part of my information was false, but still correct due to it BEING A FRIEND.

                                              I believe I have already addressed that issue.

                                          "Quickbuy" trades and buyouts (B/O) do not count towards evidence.

                                          Remember, all prices should assume that the hat is clean (not duped or gifted)


                                          Both of these quotes were taken from the Price suggesting Guide. Your suggestion contains 2 hats that are duped and items that you were "quickbuying". Therefore i do not believe this is valid proof, even though you are just updating the price(and should be in buds, all proof of key sales was you)

                                            - Only 1 of these hats was offered in my Quickbuy trade, and it was offered for the full price. I have paid the full price / close to the seller's asking price for these items.

                                            - From my personal experience, being duped or not does not matter for low-tier effects / unusuals. Assuming they did actually matter, their values would have been counted as lower, and consequently I should have suggested a higher price. But since I did not discern between duped ones and not (and I still don't, for a hat of this value), this is not a valid point.

                                              Yeah, validating this, if something under 3 buds is duped, it doesn't really matter, so that's not applicable.

                                              why do you need 4 of them?

                                              i get the angry thing and your proof is enough to refute price manip, but do you honestly need 4 with the same effect?

                                              you could say the excessiveness is a bit...unusual

                                                Yeah. Something reeks of price manipulation from this. Even though he may have the proof, something isn't right here.

                                                His original post even reeks of price manipulation and should be taken out of consideration.

                                                  I have so many of them, I must be planning something. My next step would obviously be refreshing the current price. Sigh...

                                                    technically you are changing its main value from a fluctuating currency to a stable currency. when the suggestion was made, buds were 17 keys, and 1.3-1.4 buds is 22-24 keys, but buds are dropping, meaning if price is still in buds then the value of the unusual drops too, but in keys it would stay constant, if not increase relative to buds.

                                                      Thanks for the reminder, but I know exactly how the price would be (not) affected when bud prices change.


                                                      The question is, why is that bad? Also, why would someone price a hat based on a currency that they didn't pay with? As I've probably said 3-4 times by now, I paid with keys, not buds.


                                                      Ask yourself, when you go to a supermarket in your country, do you see the prices in a foreign currency?


                                                      Moreover, there are currently 869 Unusuals priced with keys, so this would certainly not be the first.

                                                      Here are some of them:

                                                      Overclocked Base Metal Billycock

                                                      Stormy Storm Pom-Pommed Provocateur

                                                      Purple Confetti Pirate Bandana

                                                      Dead Presidents Engineer's Cap

                                                      Searing Plasma Brain Bucket

                                                      Steaming Hustler's Hallmark

                                                      Green Confetti Glengarry Bonnet

                                                      Stormy Storm Hotrod

                                                      Nuts n' Bolts Minnesota Slick

                                                      Blizzardy Storm Buccaneer's Bicorne

                                                      Overclocked Bunsen Brave

                                                      Purple Confetti Conquistador

                                                      Blizzardy Storm Détective Noir

                                                      Vivid Plasma Dread Knot

                                                      Circling TF Logo Professional's Panama

                                                      Kill-a-Watt Respectless Robo-Glove

                                                      Orbiting Planets Sergeant's Drill Hat

                                                      Steaming Sergeant's Drill Hat

                                                      Stormy Storm Sober Stuntman

                                                      Smoking Swagman's Swatter

                                                      Purple Confetti Tam O' Shanter

                                                      Terror-Watt Otolaryngologist's Mirror

                                                      Nuts n' Bolts Pencil Pusher

                                                      Power Surge Prancer's Pride

                                                      Stormy Storm Professional's Panama

                                                      Orbiting Fire Professional's Panama

                                                          This was a reply to your comment regarding earbuds not being stable and keys being stable. And now you're saying the other thing again. This is what happens when someone doesn't have a clear idea of what they're talking about.


                                                          You keep going in circles, I have already answered each and every one of your concerns, with more than enough proof and discussion.


                                                          And, for the last time, I could own all of them if I choose to do so. Sales are sales.

                                                            Honestly I didn't expect this much of a response to my initial comment. I only wanted to make a bad pun and point out the fact you own 4.

                                                  Why do I need 4 of them? Perhaps I'm collecting them, because I like them? Or perhaps I will delete them from the game after I get each and every single one of them? Why does it matter? Do you often go around and ask people why they buy stuff?


                                                  In what way does this change the accuracy of the suggestion? Am I in any way manipulating the price of the item, by showing purchases that I myself made at the current price range?


                                                  Frankly, I don't think I have to have a reason to purchase, let alone share it with anyone. I can buy anything and everything I like, in the quantities I want. I can also make a suggestion and show these purchases. I see no value or point in justifying my purchases in this suggestion. The point is not how many, or why a person purchases items. This is a pricing suggestion, and I have provided more than enough proof. If you have any counter-evidence, I will happily modify my suggestion accordingly. If not, please don't make such mordant comments.


                                                  I am getting really tired of answering such pointless comments, and regretting my decision of making this suggestion.


                                                  Moderators, it is time for you to make your decision, and stop this madness. It doesn't look like giving it more time is going to change anything.

                                                    Moderators will make a final decision once they review the proof provided, conduct their own search of the unusuals current sales to see if any were outliners, if there were other sales missed and so forth, compare results, and when they have time; they will not rush a decision simply because you are being inconvenienced by the comments.

                                                      Fair enough, but a suggestion loses its accuracy over time, and is not meant for predicting the future price of items. It has already been 17 days. I think that is more than enough for the moderators to perform the tasks you mentioned.


                                                      My inconvenience comes mainly from answering the same questions over and over again.

                                                        The redundant questions are unfortunately a regular occurrence for any suggestion, even for ones that stay open for less than a day; it just comes with the territory.


                                                        And although I did simplify what the mods usually do before they accept suggestions, sometimes things come up that do complicate the time it takes for suggestions to be accepted or not; there have been a few rare cases in which suggestions have stayed open for months on end, a majority of them being unusual suggestions. All you can do is hope that yours doesn't end up one of those rare cases.

                                                This is the TF Logo Team Captain all over again.


                                                I wouldn't consider the 20 keys an outlier personally, since it's only 4 keys away from the other sales.


                                                Furthermore, there has to be more than just your sales, the people who owned them before you surely would have some sales in the last 2 months.


                                                Regarding the key value, when a hat is priced in buds, it's priced in keys in the database, so that when the price of buds fluctuates, so does the unusual prices in buds. Because of this, it's more practical to price in buds.

                                                  Have to agree with dezi here and it looks like it took months to sell it for 20 keys.

                                                    No, you cannot conclude that from the creation date of the. Trades can be closed, and opened again. And during those months, I was also actively looking for Angers, and never saw this trade. The time-gap between the comments supports my case.

                                                      Well there's posts from 5 months ago, and a post from 2 weeks ago, obviously it didn't sell within 2 days.

                                                        The lack of any posts between 5 months and 2 weeks suggests that the trade was closed during that time period. Besides, I could have offered the user just 1 bud as he was asking, which would've made it a bigger outlier. Instead, I offered him something closer to what I paid for others.

                                                          So if it was a quicksell, it would have sold 5 months ago when he put it up. He even put it up again and it still took him awhile, so 20 keys doesn't look at all like an outlier.

                                                            You're only speculating at this point. 5 months ago it might not have been a quicksell. Or perhaps he just quit TF2, and stopped looking at the offers that were made during that time. All I know is that once it was bumped again, it sold almost immediately.

                                                    I have already written enough about the keys / buds argument. Also, when a hat is priced in buds, it's not necessarily priced in keys in the database. Most of them are priced in buds. Some hats are even priced in USD in bp.tf's database. Please don't make up things.


                                                    Here's the summary of bp.tf's unusual price currencies:

                                                    6268 are in earbuds

                                                    870 are in keys

                                                    2 are in metal

                                                    2077 are in usd


                                                    Regardless, I will only change the currency I used in the suggestion if a moderator tells me to do so, with a good reason.


                                                    The 20 keys was a definitely a quicksell, because the person was literally quickselling. He was asking for 1 bud when everyone else was asking for 1.3-1.4 buds, on a 1.3-1.4 bud hat, that makes a 26% discount considering the mean value. Hence, it was a quicksell.

                                                      He's got a point - when it's priced in buds, it's registered as the amount of keys buds are. This means that when buds change value, so does the value of everything priced in buds. You don't generally see this because buds only get very small updates but on the older unusuals (2+ years last priced) they'll have weird numbers and that shows it.


                                                      If it's priced in keys, it stays as a flat 22-24 keys. So basically it's more practical to price in buds, yes, like dezi has said, but it's not as representative of the market, as shown through your suggestion.


                                                      Also, mods are probably holding off until there's a unanimous conclusion as to what to do. They don't like to just accept if it's "close enough" (except maybe polar but that's with high tier unusuals generally), but if they're unsure, they'll let another mod decide.

                                                        I know very well the implications of pricing an unusual in buds versus keys, and replied to such comments several times already. Please stop repeating the same thing over and over again.

                                                        Am I the only one who is keen to know what unusuals are priced in metal?

                                                      I don't see a valid reason of this prices change .Probably you just don't like your unusual anger ( 4 to be exact to be valued. In buds) . Also updating the price would'nt help u sell the unusual faster , it's just a reference "guide" / aka suggestion .......

                                                        The current price is 3 months old, and has to be updated, it's just a coincidence that it's the same value (although in keys)


                                                        Also, he's a collector, a buyer not a seller it seems.

                                                          "Is there a option?", thank you very much for your invaluable insight... Sigh... When will these comments end?

                                                          Sorry if I repeat any of the crap that has been in the 81 replies of this thread.

                                                          I might just end up getting banned for this, but this is like Christians on Youtube. They whale out a bunch of shit to stir up a flame war.


                                                          Why I compare that to this is because of two reasons. Price conversion and the amount owned. I am not going against anyone here, but considering how much shit is being stirred, we should settle on a final opinion. After all, that's the whole point of a suggestion; to get everyone to agree on the price.


                                                          With the evidence shown, it's pretty solid. I don't see why other people are downvoting the suggestion just because he has four. If he had not owned those four, this suggestion would've snapped into a WHOLE DIFFERENT TOPIC. The other thing, conversion. He proves his point on buds fluctuating up and down. If you take a look at the old prices for buds and the average change from when they go up and down, you can say it's ~1.5 months. With this in mind, all the angers he's purchased have been bought with pure KEYS. Keys always have a floating price, that's way they are so stable compared to buds.


                                                          tl;dr Convesrion was due to the amount bought with pure keys. If he owned none, everything would've been smooth.


                                                          Agree on something, stop arguing.

                                                            Adding some extra proof I found, couldn't find many sales besides TWP's own.

                                                            Sold for a Purple Confetti Defiant Spartan(1.1 with Overpay) and Sweets ~1.5 Keys(1.2 Total)

                                                            http://www.tf2outpost.com/item/440,2975772790,518,5 Anger History

                                                            http://www.tf2outpost.com/item/440,2979311169,340,5 Spartan History

                                                            http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198044459529?time=1411017760


                                                            Sold for 1 Earbud

                                                            http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198082456488?time=1408863600 -> http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198082456488?time=1408995481

                                                            You guys decide what to make of them.

                                                              That one bud is an absolute quicksell.

                                                              The one payed in non pure just fluctuates this price more.

                                                                1.2 - 1.4 is workable. 1 - 1.4 is probs a bit wide + 1 bud was a quicksell I guess

                                                              My God this suggestion is still up?

                                                                My previous comment was meant to be a joke ;_;

                                                                  If people hate your jokes, stop cracking them

                                                                  This is the longest I've ever seen an unusual suggestion up.

                                                                  This is weird

                                                                    You know, you couldve said something relevant.

                                                                        You know, you couldve said something relevant.<---could've, or could have or even could of, you're welcome*******

                                                                          Dont be a smartass about it.

                                                                      seriously why is this still up? is it that controversial of a pricing that it must continue to be voted on until people are actually complaining that it is still up? its not even an actual change in value (suggested when buds were solid 17, so no change at the time of suggestion), its just a price refresh