Team Fortress 2
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
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(Resuggest)Update: range from 10 ref -> 10-10.33, maybe a better range and support the proofs
GG TF2 Economy, GG Keys
Just a little ammendment on the key price, make it 10 ref flat will be better than 9.66-10
--All the proofs were bumped within this 20 hours--
Any feedback would be appreicated :)
Sold @ 10 ref:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23537986 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23537733 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23537706 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23537477 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23537390 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23537370 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23536527 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23535691 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23538196 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23538159 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23536537 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23538376 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23534966 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23534864 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23534750 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23534710 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23534703 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23534104 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23534000 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23533910 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23533649 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23533573 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23533405 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23533206 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532977 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532966 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23535787 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532882 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531593 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532852 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532737 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532707 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532570 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532487 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532072 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531953 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531745 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531587 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531407 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531308 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23530950 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23530931 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23537573 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23530427 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23530411 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23530386 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23530179 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23530072 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529893 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529798 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529768 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529668 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529658 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529642 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529612 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529485 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529461 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529022 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23527032 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23527014 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23526752 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23526697 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23526624 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23526464 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23526377 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23526272 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23526196 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23526151 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23525987 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23525900 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23525744 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23525699 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23525676 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23525632 - inst
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23525198 - inst
Sold for more than 10 ref:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23533519 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532752 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529402 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23528926 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23525553 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23535979 - 10.22 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23535916 - 10.22 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23536036 - 10.22 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23535818 - 10.22 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529141 - 10.22 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23536860 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23536979 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23536668 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23535904 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23535806 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23535736 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531492 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23530401 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23533744 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532770 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529875 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529414 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531085 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23529227 - 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23532963 - 10.55 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23527295 - 10.66 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23526369 - 10.66 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23537317 - 11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23536029 - 11 ref
Buyers @ 10 ref:
Buyers @ more than 10 ref:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23220506 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23329446 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23077682 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23389432 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23536339 - 10.11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23072069 - 10.22 ref
Great proof, however it seems like a huge jump from the last accepted suggestion with no significant support for the 10-10.33 refined range. Going to counter this (or plaxorous will).
Yes, please downvote me for not reading my post.
no significant support for the 10-10.33 refined ?
Are u sure ? Have u read the whole proof ?
Not enough ?
and probably more, but i havnt put them there :)
Put all of them here or else people will just complain about how "inadequate" your proof is
Why wasn't it 10-10.22?
You have plenty of 10 solds compared to 10.33
i don't really think u read the whole proof. He wrote 10 ref insta sold
Very nice proof. Upvote from me.
Also from me.
(liked your comment <3)
Me as well
<3 +1800 reclaim metal
I Love You All...(No Homo)
Have Lots of Evidence to Support the Range and it's Good as Well.
well, like every trader who voted, i will also upvote - we might as well help the inflation reach its terminal price sooner. by next week, i predict 11 ref per key. the sooner we reach the limit (is 15 refs max per key good enough?), the sooner we can expect the price to drop again.
It isn't going to stop...
Probably after Scream Fortress 2014
15 has been my bet as well.
lol. people really forget the fact that everyday tons of weapons are dropped to produce ref. But 0 keys are dropped unless someone purchases key by REAL MONEY
This is not going anywhere. Your vote may pass, but as I said, it's pointless. This will just make rich people have more and poor players have even less.
Maybe you're right, but there's nothing wrong with having hope. I don't think all this inflation is right (it never ends well, look at every single example in history), but what can we do about it? There were groups that tried to lower them but they weren't big enough to make a real difference and were largely put down by bigger groups which shall not be named. All we can do is hope that Mr. Dragonborn was right and they will go back down one day when people stop using keys altogether due to their price. Or whatever other reason they would have for going down after reaching so high.
Anyways, rant aside, the suggestor did a really good job. Proof looks nice and no counter-proof as of now. Upboat from me.
Nice solid proof , but like u sed Zap the Liar yee i remember those groups but right now most anoying thing in tf2 economey are ppl who constantly negotating/talking/discousting abaut prices of keys must go now .... well yee i remember good old days whene keys was 2.33 ref But right now ..... even if some ppl sellingkeys 2.33 whoever buy it unbox or just sell it for 10 refs ..... so even if we wana drop price then we ALL must accept key prices as i dunno like 2-3 refs ..... but for traders/proffit hunters this will never work out ..... so we can just be glad now thet keys fall back to 8~ ref ......
anybody with more than a few keys doesn't give a crap about the value of keys in ref. a higher ref:key ratio does not mean the "rich people have more". Anything of any real value is measured in KEYS or maintains a relatively static relationship with keys (TOD Tickets and BP expanders are a good example). Anything that can be crafted with metal will always lose value relative to keys simply due to the free nature of metal.
Welp. We'll see where it goes. I honestly don't think that this whole "raising key price" is good, as you may reealised. But as I said, let's just wait and see.
As much as it pains me, Upvote, solid proof
I'm sorry, but i really don't support keys continuously going up in price, they should really have a fixed price like how 2 eps make a scrap and 3 scrap makes a rec etc.
That's because you literally can convert it like that, so the price will never change. You can't just wad up a bunch of metal, throw it at Gaben and get a key. Key prices are based on how many keys are in circulation, supply and demand. More people buying keys from the mann co. store will put more into circulation, increasing supply and most likely lowering prices. For increasing prices, I'm guessing less people are willing to give up their keys, so supply decreases. Even more, when prices rise more people want to buy keys before they get too high so they can make a profit later on, increasing prices more, or people want to sell before they crash and nobody wants to buy them, decreasing prices, and so on. Then it hits a point where people believe it's hit the limit, cash out & the cycle reverses itself. Supply and demand will always rule the market for things like keys, so you'll just have to live with it. If you can't, then trading isn't for you.
10+ ref? Buckle up, we're in this for the long haul.
Solds at 10.00 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23576001 --> x8
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23578833 --> x3
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23579109 --> x2
Solds at 10.11 - 10.22 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23578891 --> 10.22 ref
Solds at 10.33 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23573549 --> x4+
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23577506 --> x3+
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23577120 --> x3
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23575789 --> x3
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23578310 --> x2+
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23579287 --> x2
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23575389 --> x2
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23572005 --> x2
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23574609 --> 10.44 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23576722 --> 10.55 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23575435 --> 10.66 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23575570 --> 11.00 ref x2
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23575607 --> 11.00 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23573560 --> 11.00 ref
keys are getting ridiculous but the proof is conclusive. upvoted :P
I personally sold 2keys at range 11.11ref each.
i sold 6 keys for 10.33
Better range than before. Upvote
Prove that people dont sell for 9.66, or that its a quicksell. You need to eliminate it from the range.
You clearly haven't tried to buy keys in the last days. They are even hard to buy at 10 ref, they're gone in seconds.
Then it should be easy to find proof for it. Its not the job of the viewers to assume that 9.66 doesnt happen. Forgive me if I am wrong, but the point of a suggestion is for the suggester to find proof, not for the viewers to act based on their own knowledge. Otherwise, people could open up a suggestion with no proof at all, and say "You know that 9.66 doesnt happen." But thats not how it works. ^-^
U have the "best" logic in the world. If 10 ref is insta sold, then how can 9.66 ref not insta sold. BTW i don't know how can a guy with 2 accepted suggestion say such thing
i think the tons of instant solds for 10 ref listed have already proofed his statement, if you need more instant solds, then i suggest you to find them yourself
I was going to say the exact same words. The suggester left a whole wall of insta sold at 10 ref, I'm not sure if you checked them.
9.66 prices have to happen often if that were the case. Hyperion stop trying to manipulate.
How am I manipulating? I support the range, but there should be SOME proof that 9.66 isnt happening!
It's happening, however it's useless to throw into the price suggestion if it's focused on 10-10.33
Fair enough. However, I still believe that somewhere in the suggestion he should show that there are no sellers at 9.66. That is all. ^-^
of course those quicksells will happen, but if every suggestion were bounded with those quicksellers, none of the suggestion will get accepted, and still, 10 ref is a quicksell price already, according to the proofs
I understand that. By 'no sellers' I meant that essentially there should be no non-quicksells remaining on outpost.
Since there are not, it can be included as proof that 9.66 should be eliminated from the range.
Hyperion is right, you're suppose to show that 9.66 isn't even being attempted anymore, which you are, but just indirectly. Both of you are right, it's just that Hyperion most likely doesn't understand what you're giving/telling him.
Hyperion, 10 refined is more then 9.66, correct? Let's say X is greater than(>) Y. If something quicksells at X and you're looking for quicksells at Y value, if quicksells at X value are supplied, doesn't that mean that both X and Y values are simultaneously quickselling?
Quite the contrary. 9.66 just doesn't happen. (I've seen 10 as the cheapest in the past 4 days) I sold 2 keys for 10.33 in 10 minutes today
Good proof, upvote on my side!
Well this was inevitable.
upvote for me !
organized and good proof
Can we go 11 ref by the end of the month too? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Upvote because very good proof.
up by 0.66 in 3 days...seems like next suggestions will be done to increase the price by 1 ref
by the way tf2 finance says 1 Key = 10.01 Refined, while trade.tf estimates 9.67. i doesn't seem that 10.33 is quite here
This suggestion reflects current market state. UPVOTE
And what is said current market status?
Out of proportion?
gg tf2 economy lol uboat from me
Tf2 economy ****...
Can you explain why it's "****"?
Upboat. Good boy.
Terrific amount of proof. Here sir take an upvote
It is done. The keys are finally over 10 refined worth. Let's celebrate! #savetehkeyz
I can only agree that it's hard to get keys for 10 refs.
Sales at 10 ref are holding strong.
Keys have grown price so much since they started out at 2 ref and I...I...DADDY IS SO PROUD OF YOU!! >.<
I still remember that keys were 5.66 ref, bills 8 keys and buds 25 keys.. Anyone remembers this too? Anyway, has nothing to do with the suggestion. Looks good te me. Upvote.
In my cycle, keys were 1 refined, earbuds were 1 reclaimed, bills hats were 1 refined. And before that, we did not even have items, only stock weapons.
... What's the point on voting again for making keys even more expensive.
We'll make them even more expensive and they will sell for even more on tf2outpost.
You must not understand that a suggestion can have 0 votes, and still pass/fail.
This is some high quality proof. Upheterozygote
CHOO CHOO TO THE 11 REF TRAIN
Well. Proof is good, upvote.
It's finally happening, 10 ref keys
Hey man good proof! 😁 /\Upvote/\
A nightmare before christmas, 10 ref keys...
That pun xD
I'm gonna upvote it :D lots and lots of proof...maybe someday i'll try making my first suggestion :P
Much suggestion very proof Upvote
I believe you can actually get in trouble for useing ASCII Art.
hell naw. not another rise ffs
STOP MAKING KEYS GO UP IN PRICE YOURE RUINING THE ECOMOMY
Don't blame us,please. Blame the community.
You do realize this is why the community sells keys for more? You think people are going to sell at the solid bp.tf price once the keys rise? Lol. This has been happening for months, ever since keys started rising. A constant cycle.
You say that, but keys dropped down to 7.33 as recently as August, and stayed there for most of September. I still have no idea what started that, but it happened. So this site isn't just pushing the price up for the sake of it, it's reporting real sale prices. Can anyone enlighten me on what happened with the key crash? Doesn't make much sense.
1 word. breadbox
Seriously? The chance of getting a strange throwable weapon by crafting hats meant people panic-sold keys? It can't just be that can it?
people needed ref/craft hats to make the breadbox. don't ask me why they wanted to do that but the initial decrease created a panic among people with only a few keys. those people kept undercutting the others while anybody with 20+ keys just stood by and watched for the most part. The panic sellers kept the price going down a bit after the breadbox crafting ended but once all of them were out of keys and those keys in the hands of people that don't really deal in ref much at all most days then the price started rising again creating a similar panic in the other direction for people to hop back on the key train.
sigh so it has come to this...
ohwell good proof upboat from me
Mann... I wished I cashed out later than earlier... another vote has been sent to the heavens.
And this time, I clicked all the links. Yay.
Well as far as I seen from proof it is ok but still I dont like this fast inflation of 1 reclaimed per week or 2. It is not much as long you keep on making fast profit trades and you work with keys and buds.
if keys bypass 10 refs im out & i wont any one from now on ! because it's too much
so upvote from me because u got some gud proofs -.-
It's finally going to happen!
*Slams another nail into the TF2s' coffin*
The problem is that most of the sellers just take the bptf price as a reference one. I wonder what will happen if bptf will not show the price of keys for 1 month. I think, it will be a nice experiment and the price in the end of this period will tell us a lot about tf2 economics.
Lots of good proof.
Won't last long - keys at $2.45 on community market. The minute they hit $2.50 is the downfall of keys
Forgetting the fact that ref will decrease in cents in order to secure the equalization of keys.
It won't decrease as long as people aren't selling for less. And considering the current refined market refined isn't going down any time soon.
forgetting the fact that they've hit 2.53 USD on the steam market this year. also they're still 2.49 in the ingame store and less in paypal trading
The faster we can max out the key's inflation, that quicker it will go down for all the newer traders. Patience young padawans, the price will drop sooner or later
Keys are rising way too fast in these weeks. I definitely dont like that, we are cloes to the disaster.
But these are good proofs, so, upvote from me. It's definitely hard to buy for 10 ref.
yes proof is good but why u upvoting ? stay at 10 ref plls..
You do realize that people will buy keys no matter what price they are, right? They're getting more expensive for no reason.
good proof upvote, sooner it raises sooner it falls
I just sold 3 for 11 ref. Upboat.
lol faggots saying "not enough proof"
With the recent Halloween crates I get the feeling Valve wants to get rid of keys completely to stop this madness (and to get more money, of course).
Gonna hate myself for supporting keys going beyond a savable measure, but the proof here looks solid. *ugh* Upvoting.
Well I sold mine at 10ref, both keys. So upvote, they sold really quick on here.
I'm upvoting because I see everyone else who tried to argue otherwise got shunned
a scrupulous reason to upvote, however the only reason they are being shunned is because the comments are irrelevant like 'THe economy is dying' or 'Keys are ridiculous'
So, yeah, as long as nothing irrelevant is posted, you should be fine <3
You have a good point there. Also because of the "Expiration date/Breadbox" update, people were destroying most craft hats for those strange weapons, causing the keys to fall. After the end of the Breadbox crafting period, the keys rebounded back up. In addition, because TF2 has hit 100,000 concurret players(heard on Kritzkast) it makes sense that the demand for keys would increase, making it a hard-to-get commodity without paying on the Mann Co. Store.
Well it's funny, I actually see people making sense from their irrelevance. Yeah of course the key is going to crash is people keep making it higher, ref is going to be worthless eventually. I don't see why everybody tries to hide that fact by downvoting a comment clearly not irrelevant to keys.. although at this point I'm either going to get a cleverpun or a large amount disliking. This is the internet, logic doesn't exist!
Disliking because thou tells the truth.
NOOOOOOO TOO HIGH INSTANT DOWNVOTE
I wish the price would quit raising. :( The market is going to crash sooner or later.
My backpack is ready. UpGoat...GG
Da vi ohueli s takimi zenami na kei, kuda eshe bolshe !
The people on outpost are always seem to go above the normal price. Won't increasing the price just inspire them to go higher ;(. Upvote for good proof but I'm upset.
why don't this suggestion got accepted already?
this is using too much space of the top 5 suggestion
This economy is so wrong
No it's not, and I'm tired of people making stupid assumptions like these. It's not wrong, it's common sense. Refined metal is infinite, 1000's of weapons drop everyday, people make more ref and buy keys with ref. In reality keys aren't gaining value, ref is losing it. This price was inevitable. There's nothing wrong with the economy.
True, it's not that the keys will crash, the refined metal is. Because you can easily craft them anyway, with weapon drops, compared to the keys, which require you to pay a bit of cash to afford them.
Theres everything wrong with the comunity
Theres everything wrong w/ the economy
I put keys at 9.88 refined and had 5 friend requests within minutes. Clearly Keys need to explode before they go back down upvote.
You Lied to me release the keys
but upvote anyways
You've got to be kidding, y u do dis greedy people, y. The currency has fallen, inflation has occured, our items are now worthless.
Upboat ;n; RIP keys (gets thumbs down even though I upvote cuz community is butts like that)
Why do people keep saying keys are "rising" and "inflating"?
1. Keys will never rise above the value of $2.49 and can still be bought easily at $2.00 via PayPal. Key values would be more precisely measured if compared to real world currency, but since they aren't, this creates the illusion that their value is increasing as opposed to metal decreasing.
2. Inflation, a very basic but surprisingly and horribly misused economic term in the TF2 community, implies that there are more of a certain item and thus, the value decreases. Relative to metal and earbuds, and even money, keys are most certainly not inflating.
I also don't foresee a "crash" anytime in the near future. I'm no fan of OP's generalizations about the market, but the proof is thorough.
I never looked at it that way. I guess that's true, considering ALL tf2 players recieve 10 weapons a week, making TONS of new metal. Therefore this guy is a genious ^^ Hooray for inteligence (being serious, this is in no way sarcastic, I really never saw it that way)
So just imagine, millions of tf2 players, 10's of millions of weapons a week, pretty legit comment
What would happen if keys rose too high (in metal value)? Would we need a substitute for metal as it is now becoming worthless? Im not saying its a bad thing that keys are going up (in metal that is, keys still have the same value they did when the were lower) because that means that the economy is growing along with a demand for keys. More metal is comming in, further devaluing metal as a currency because there is just so much of it. But what if the economy within TF2 grows too fast and keys become out of range for the new player who can only deal with metal? Any ideas? I would really hate to see the entry bar be set to high and limit the amount or discourage new traders who are comming in to the tf2 economy.
Would it be possible that the keys rise high enough to crash? I dont see many peopel having the backpack room or metal reserves to buy keys at too high of a price?
Now keep in mind Im not against the increase in metal value that the key is getting, that is a good thing. Im just throwing an idea at the wall and am looking for some input from others.
by the way, good proofs, there is no way i could devote the time to compile that list!
plenty of new traders and people that have no intention of trading simply buy keys from the mann-co store or steam market to get the things they want. the idea that someone could work their way toward becoming p2p without ever putting money into the game has always been somewhat ridiculous.
im that one guy trying to get rich by trading :)
it's a whole lot easier to "get rich" by trading if you bother to start out putting a bit of money into the system. I've sold over $2000 worth of keys/buds for paypal when I only put in about $300 total (when i had a lot of extra money and before f2ps even existed) and my bp is nearing the 5k mark without me spending anywhere near that. You'll spend a whole hell of a lot longer working up to your first bud than going from 1 bud to 10.
Put 50 cents into the game because that was all i had on steam and I have traded up to an unusual and the games library I have now. It is kinda ridiculous but not impossible! But i agree with you, if you are out to make a profit you should put money into the game, I just did it because I was bored.
gg Economy with break if Keys reach 20 ref
Ref will cost a cent
Drop items will nearly cost nothing.
If you havent read the post about this, I suggest you do
Nothing we can do about it, the problem lies with valve, every update they have had since 2 years ago has made metal more and more useless. (Removing dirty hats so we dont have a reason to craft, updates which make people spam unbox so we use up keys only to get metal back...etc)
The only Update which unintentionally helped with ref's dying value was te breadbox since it gave metal a purpose.
I dont think keys will get that high, there is bound to be something that comes along to give metal a purpose like the breadboxes again right?
The market has reached a threshold point where it requires less regulating controls (the government; in this case, us) so the flow of the economy can return to a equilibria influx naturally. Although there are evidences that proofs there could be new price suggestion, it doesn't mean it is necessary to suggest it. By making further "resuggestions" to the value of a key, not only will this damage the actors of the currency; metal. But it will create a economic dispersion that could potentially break the market. These are powerful market instruments you guys are tempering with, I hope the game is ready the suffer the consequences.
I honestly believe what someone else mentioned about Valve possibly wanting to get rid of keys altogether being a possibility. Key inflation has gotten ridiculous lately and, regardless of the reasons, there are a lot of people who are turned off by this. Sadly; the representation on sites like this is skewed because the amount of people who are uber-nerdy about the game (like me) and/or make a large deal of pixel profits far surpass the people who use the site much (and actually talk/vote/etc) but aren't active in trades/profits and thus have no selfish motive in their voting. This isn't to say that everybody's sole reasoning for being on this site frequently and being active in posting/voting is manipulating prices to their own advantage...but it's a BIG part of it. I mean why would someone who doesn't have anything to gain (or lose) and/or isn't particularly in the marketing nuances of Team Fortress 2 spend 3,4, or more days a week on this website? It'd be like expecting someone with little political affluence or interest spending a lot of their time discussing just that.
I'm sure I'll see downvotes and, likely, some negative responses to this comment but anybody who frequents the site knows it's generally true. Whether they'll admit it to themselves is another story...but therein lies part of the human condition which makes for such great satirical value.
You need proof to make a suggestion, his suggestion is nearly 2 days old, meaning people have been trading at his suggested price since 2 days ago doesnt matter what bp.tf shows. We dont dictate the price we reflect the market which is why we are always slightly behind the actual price.
Not everyone here uses the site to "manipulate" i know for one it's pretty much impossible to actually use this site to make a profit via suggestions. Many regulars who come here are veteran traders or they just enjoy the community, visit the forums and you'll see plenty of people asking and receiving help.
Ive spent countless hours here simply because it's a nice pass time, ive helped plenty of users and helped many "noobs" to eventually have a more expensive backpack than myself. The only "advantage" ive seen so far are users who hate each other and they constantly update prices which lower their bp and ignore anything which would increase their bp.
Its stupid people think by increasing the ref for keys you are some how making it worth more than 2.5 dollars when actially you are lowering the price of ref and thus lowering ever item you have in ur backpack thats under a key
Good proof and all, but when you say "GG TF2 Economy, GG Keys --Inflation--" Why do make this price suggestion? Won't this just further contribute to the inflation and cause the keys to raise higher, therefore damaging the TF2 economy even more? I have heard the term "Rep-whoring" but I think thats a bit harsh.... Just a little confusion from a tf2 player/trader - please don't judge me. :D
You need proof to make a suggestion, his suggestion is nearly 2 days old, meaning people have been trading at his suggested price since 2 days ago doesnt matter what bp.tf shows.
We dont dictate the price we reflect the market which is why we are always slightly behind the actual price.
Whoa, prices of keys going up and up, well nothing beats good proof. Upvoted .
cool... finally a legit suggestion, UPVOTE! :D
keys sell for 10 ref like lightning :O
THE LOWER THE KEYS PRICES THE BETTER FOR EVERY ****ING ONE!!!
IT WILL BE MORE POSSIBLE TO GET HIGH PRICE ITEMS ESPECIALY EAR BUDS.
PEOPLE WHO ARE SELLING IT FOR 10KEYS THEN DOING IT TO BECAUSE OF STUPIDITY **** YOU! PLUS PEOPLE JUST VOTE FOR THESE STUFF BECAUSE THEY HAVE TONS OF KEYS AND WANT TO SELL IT FOR MANNY REF PLUS POSSIBLE TO SELL MANY THEN VOTE FOR LOWER MAKE IT ****ING LOW!!!BITCHES
You have no understanding of an economy, do you?
We aren't voting because we want to sell for more.
We are voting because this has legitimate, well-thought out proof.
And you, for some reason, come blazing in here with words of pointlessness, thinking it would be 'fun' to attempt to insult us.
who the F**k cares about proof?!?!? xD It's just people selling at that price yes it makes sense pricing it off that but TF2 Economy is near a crash Guess CS:GO is the new Tf2
Go on, make a suggestion for keys without proof. I 'guarantee' it'll go somewhere.
And you are forgetting that the CS:GO economy is just over a year old.
TF2 is not gone either, and I can say you are one of these doomsday theorists that attempt to get everyone hyped up so you can 'boycott Valve' or this website, when in fact it's neither of our faults.
lol I know about the CS:GO Economy and doomsday Theorist? lol Ref is going down keys going up the market is gonna crash or everything will drop right down and it's true.
I know about the CS:GO Economy maybe you don't? TF2 Sucks I think compared to CS:GO xD anyway people always say EVERYWHERE tf2 economy is gonna crash I'm believing them it sounds true but I'm not a massive trader so i have no idea xD
You have no idea, so why do you believe them? You are blindingly following someone's word without knowing the full picture.
You can also claim to 'know' the CS:GO economy, but you fail to realize both economies are synonymous. They follow the same rules. I'm also an avid part of the CS community myself.
And in response to blindly following because people EVERYWHERE say it's crashing, I can say to you now, it isn't. If you took the time to learn and read about what an economy is and how it functions, you'll actually understand why Ref is falling, Keys are rising and why people 'claim' a market crash is occurring.
I know more about the CS:GO Economy then TF2 and no TF2 And CS:GO are far apart for starters there is no Base currency I.e Ref,Rec and Scrap there is only keys and sticker capsule keys you can't base a currency out of those xD and yes I probably am blindly following people but it makes no sense why the ref would go down and keys to go up? People say ref can't be used as much anymore but I thought you could only craft with ref?
And is the CS:GO market gonna crash? most CS:GO items are a lot xD I think it will over time
Both economies work the same way. It's evident.
I'll say what I always say to people who complain and grovel to Key and Ref suggestions.
Ref is Free
Keys are not
There is more Ref than Keys
Keys are in higher demand, Ref is not
Therefore, Ref will go down. Keys have stayed the same price since they were released. (Ever heard of PayPal?)
Pick. Up. A. Book.
Picked up the book you told me to pick up and I now understand the TF2 economy 1. Don't follow in other peoples foot steps 2. It's not crashing 3. Thanks for telling me sorry about this I'm not very well at the TF2 Economy.....
Thank you, Have a good day now.
Im not doing this for fun! Im just sharing my opinion. plus dont expect me having FUN!
Your opinion is complaining about the economy on a site which doesn't have anything to do with it besides offering a simple price guide system. Your CAPS lock idealistic views of telling us everything is failing is not going to get you anywhere.
I couldn't reply to your comment that is 1 below this, so I'm replying to you here. Commenting is not mean't to be fun, Commenting is mean't to help the suggestor, or to attempt to prove them wrong. Please don't comment stupid garbage like "you people are voting up because you have lots of keys and want more refined to get richer!" One, that's called flipping your profit, and it requires a very big risk to do it remotely correct. A currency suggestion can pass with a low amount of votes. Don't believe me? Here's an example: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/544fb2d5ba8d8844318b499e
IM NOT doing this for fun im just sharing my opinion. plus whats FUN in cimmenting huh??
YOU want this beucase you have keys. keys that you can buy or got to craft things and get richer!
YES LETS DESTROY the TF2 Economy! lets go! bye TF2 :'( did not know you much ( People will only -1 this because there butt hurt and want to destroy TF2 xD )
I HAVE NO CHOICE...
As if this ****ing enconomy isnt greedy enough..
Capitalist economies are always like this.
who cares really? my name says it all, onward to 20 ref!! *prolly happen in a year or so*
From my personal experience on trade servers, virtually no one asks to buy keys at over 10, with most looking for around 9.77 - .88. Also I would hope keys would stay at 10 for a while as now the relationship between keys and refined is metric (base 10). Makes it a lot easier to know instantly that .4 keys is 4 refined. Additionally, while refined is being added to the game on a weekly basis, keys inflating .33 / week is outrageous and artificially created by greedy key flipper whores trying to resell for profit. I think we need to put our foot down as a community and say enough is enough.
the majority of people trying to buy keys on trade servers are looking to buy them cheaper and resell for profit. It's that simple.
Some do to resell, yes. Some like myself buy at around 9.88 to keep as keys for future trades or unboxes. Either way, key flipping has been a strong contributor to the proof used for these upvotes.
i haven't bought a key with ref in over a month. There are much better ways to convert metal to keys.
i think its going crazy with some much ref for 1 Key :)
MUST NOT UPVOTE , MUST SAVE ECONOMY. *upvotes :C
Off-topic: 10-10.33 Ref Goodbye TF2 Been playing for 2-3 Years now. It was an honour being with you. TF2 Economy will fall early 2015...
On-Topic: I'll have to agree with this one. A lot of proof. Upvote
omg its happening! 10 ref and beyond!!!!!1 Sorry for spam gays
Sorry for trolling.. Upvote for good proof and more excellent proof, and I shall stfu.
Minor support, but I sold 2 at 10.33 in less than a day.
I had 3 trade offers for both in less than 12 hours.
Solid proof. I hate to watch keys skyrocket but upvote from me.
Inevitable economy crash inbound.
Plenty of proof, but buds are dropping and refined, very bad for the community
Smoke weed everyday.
I don't think this should even be a thing this economy has gone directly backwards, you are raising the price on Keys and lowering the price on Buds sooner or later I feel like the price is going to be so high buds are going to be absolutely worthless
People don't seem to realise that there is an infinite amount of supply for keys, but a finite amount of supply for buds... That is if what you say will happen. Hopefully the community isn't that stupid...
Just a reminder that 2 tods for 1 key are still a thing.
and since 2 tod = $1.98 and 1 key = $2.49, the tf2 econommy has an exploit.
or short of.
1 key sells for less around $2.13 on steam market to the seller. For many people there are taxes associated with buying items from the store (ie TOD really costs closer to $1.06 for quite a few people). That is where the buyers that pay 1 key for 2 tickets come from.
There is an ominous stock market crash about to happen in TF2, I don't when its going to happen, but it will be BAD.
I left for a month and I come back to 10-10.33 ref? Is this just the continuous rise, or did something happen to push it further?
Halloween got everyone dumping metal for keys to unbox a special effect.
NO PLEASE THESE CANT GO UP, i know you have a ton of proof, but seriously
Nice proof, upvote from me.
I honestly don't think keys will stop rising; but geez, I can't imagine the day that two rows of refined metal is needed to one key.
Well, good proof, say goodbye to the TF2 Economy then
Rest in peace...
I didn't expect to see gas prices displayed on backpack.tf
Oh wait, that's the rapidly fluctuating key. Hate it but proof is proof. Upvote.
i saw this link, hope it helps in a way...
sold 95 keys @ 10.33 and bought 90 @ 10
eh the trade has been on for 7 months so the keys bought and sold are of different prices
i can not believe that other people besides myself actually want to help the inflammation. I myself don't really care about key prices since i only spy crab and I quick sell those items. I'm not rich but I'm not poor either, I'd say I'm a mid-tier crabber/trader. So i say LET THE KEYS SOAR HIGHER..AND THE ECONOMY CRASH.
Also, am i the only person here that knows why the prices keep going up?
1) price goes up
2) people with keys sell for higher price
3) people raise price because of people with keys
4) people with keys sell for higher price because of people who raised the price and they don't care about the max and min sell limit.
5) everything repeats again and again until tf2 economy goes to fraps craps.
Some People just cant grasp that concept
Even if keys drop, the process will repeat such as history
People are flipping to "make profit". I make at least 5 times their key banking profits in an hour.
One unusual trade for me can make a several keys profit. They don't make a several keys profit in a /week/.
You forgot one very important key factor no pun intended. People will keep buying keys. If anyone is eager for keys to drop or maintain a steady price, then i'd suggest boycotting the very beast we've made what it is now.
agree, boycott key sales
yes u got a gud point
Upvoted i just hope this is the final rise or else the economy will get ****ed
Sold 1 for 10.33 ref about half an hour ago.
God damn it. Why must people suggest so damn high prices for keys?
i remember when keys were 4 ref
Keys should stay or go down stop raising it
I can't imagine how much effort and time you put into this... the community needs people like you!
Don't move keys up
Aww, just in the items.
Very solid proff, upvote m8
A lot of good proof but, realy?
What will be the prize till xmas?
I agree solid proof but I believe it will be fine if we keep it at 10 no reason to push it higher I have already bought plenty of keys for both 9.66 and 10 ref I just see this as a good number to stop since we can finally do .1 and only pay 1 ref which would make sense so if people upvote go ahead he has all the proof but I see this as unnecessary but you know who listens to the guy who owns a lot of keys
Dammit.... nice proof Upvote. :(
good proof. upvoting this
This needs to stop happening... upvote
"GG TF2 Economy, GG Keys"
It truly is a sad thing. That's what happens when people don't understand economics I guess. Great proof though, upvoting.
This **** is getting insane, stop raising the ****ing keys, I'm going to get some hate comments like this one.
OMG, YOU CAN'T EVEN AFFORD A KEY, STOP WHINNING
I'm just ****ing tired of you greedy ****ers on backpack.tf, no proof? Get banned. Opinions? Opinions here are useless and you can't express yourself, **** you, have a nice day you ****ers on backpack.tf
Someone is salty
I am not salty, I am just tired of assholes on backpack.tf, they think they are the GOD OF TRADING
We are NOT godly.
We are only a price guide.
And are nothing more.
(Did you notice something there?)
Also, we do not enforce trades. We're only like...
"Oh, hey! This item? Oh, this thing might go around (price here). Some might be selling it higher or lower... we don't know. Thanks for coming to backpack.tf! Remember! We don't force you to be like this. Sell that key for less, I don't care! Unless a lot of people are selling it for less.... In that case, I do care."
I know everybody is selling it for more then 10 ref but seiusly 10.33 ref for a key?!? I dont know.... I remember old times when it was 2.33 ref...
A teary-eyed upvote from me.
I love all the rage-dislikes you get on backpack.tf, I've never understood why that is.
Why do people keep raising the price of keys can we please just stop
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!! INCREASE THE PRICE OF BUDS!!!!! I DON'T CARE!!!!!!! JUST LOWER THE PRICE OF KEYS OR THE TF2 COMMUNITY WILL BE IN CHAOS !!!!!!(already is)
Noooooo! this will cause prices of items to go lower plus $0.27x10=$2.72 which I think it shouldn't happen don't go over 9.3 ref it makes no sense!
the price of ref shifts downward in $. the price of keys is fairly stagnant.
Can we just have a 10 ref suggestion before jumping up
110 Keys.. Now raise the price..
10.33 my ass!
I sold keys for 10.22 ref, I cannot vote but for me it's YES!
Why can't you vote?
Not like this............ Not like this
i found some one who was sellings keys for a BUD
Update @ 8/11
Solds @ 10 ref:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23593062 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23593004 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23592959 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23592874 - 8 keys, insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23592829 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23592444 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23592242 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23592034 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23591261 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23591223 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23591212 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23591145 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23591071 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23591056 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23590834 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23590818 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23590300 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23590212 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23589884 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23589076 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23588907 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23588929 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23588772 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23588654 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587925 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587811 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587599 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587545 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587293 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587079 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23586920 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23586889 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23586586 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23586544 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23586509 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23586343 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23586277 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23585802 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23585288 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23585192 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23585099 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23584913 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23584391 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23584288 - insta
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23584198 - insta
Solds @ 10.11 - 10.22:
Solds @ 10.33:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587678 - 1/2
Solds @ more than 10.33 ref:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23590536 - 10.44 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23586489 - 10.55 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23591239 - 10.66 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23585637 - 10.66 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23589404 - 10.66 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23592722 - 11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587644 - 11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587613 - 11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23587252 - 11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23586589 - 11 ref
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23585095 - 11 ref
Sold 3 keys at 10.33 in less than 15 minutes.
this is why the economy is crashing in tf2. Morons like you who sell for an extra reclaimed. What will happen when they hit 15,20, EVEN 25 refined in the future? Just keep it at 10 ref as is, before it gets worse
People!!! Wanna Start a campaign: - Dont buy keys until it comes on 9 ref or less.
Put this message in your trades.
Don't let this morons raise the prices of the keys in the moon.
Don't buy keys anymore.
Looks beautiful, my premature congratulations on your inevitable yellow belt! #yellowbros
I literally don't get the comments on key suggestions. Like, two people could literally say the same thing, and one would have a score of 9 while the other is down in the -20s. I don't even. Is funny to me. Just my 2 cents.
Upvote, I've seen people begging to buy one for 10.22 on some trading servers.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23579557 buying for 10.55
thumbs up for me
The cycle of key prices:
1. A price suggestion raises backpack.tf key price and is accepted.
2. People on tf2outpost raise their prices in order to make a few scraps profit off of the new key price.
3. People on backpack.tf see outpost trades with new, higher key prices.
4. Repeat steps 1-3 infinitely!
Upvoting anyway cause I'm a hypocrite :]
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a hypocrite too lol
Wow, a suggestion which actually uses proof, and by proof I mean quite a lot, too, to actually BACK UP their price suggestion? o.o
great, solid proof, upvote!!!
hmm i even saw bot buying for 10.55, srsly it is rising up like mad after bread box hype died :(
it's almost impossible to even buy keys @ 10 ref xD
i sold around 7-8 keys 10.66 ref each yeasterday :)
i am wondering why hasent this been accepted yet
#roadto10-wait. we're already here ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
A distinctive lack of downvote
An extraordinary abundance of proof
damn 4000 + Voting 250+ Talking Wow
I just sold one for 10.33 ref in 5 minutes (I've got about 8 offers in a row within that five minutes).
10-10.33 range is already outdated/irrelevant if the price is based on the actual market.
Better accept this already, we're already way behind in terms of price.
I know the proofs and all are good, but if keys reach a high amount of ref, not only it will be hard for new premium players to get to one, but it will destroy the economy. If keys will reach more than 15ref, TOD tickets will rise, like they're always half a key. I don't know why the prices of the keys are going up .33 every week, but I'm really ashamed of the people who do that to increase their backpack value ( I have seen some people refs ago do that). So, when the economy will be weakened, only then you will understand the mistakes that have been made.
Key prices are going up because keys are keeping the same value while Refined is constantly dropping in value.
Refined, (and everything tied to Refined in value) is getting cheaper and cheaper because lots of players are collecting lots of weapon drops and making lots of scrap, but very rarely does any metal get REMOVED from the economy. If you want Keys to cost less Metal, you'd need Metal to become more valuable, which requires something to use up the metal that's always being made.
"Combine three metal to make a random hat" isn't as good as it used to be, because there are a lot of different hats so the chances you get the one you want is very low. And that's the only thing that Refined is ever used for.
Increasing the price of keys may lead to lowering or increasing based on community. This would make N00B5(new players) to have less chance to trade if prices are increases as they would need a whole lot more money to start trading. This is a pain in the ass for me but Upvote because solid proof and large numbers of the evidence. Pece Off....
4 months from now keys are the new buds mark my words warn me all you want and dislike my comment all you want but you know its gonna happen and that this economy is going to crumble
That is never going to happen unless valve starts selling clean earbuds in the store for $2.50 each. There are far more keys than there are earbuds and they are easily obtainable.
>open 4 days
Give this man his deserved medal god damn it.
Can someone stop this?!
Yes, only key buyers can stop this. If they stop paying these ridiculous prices for keys, their value will drop. Sellers may want to sell them for more, but if people don't want to buy them at their rate, their price will eventually drop. But since people are willing to buy them even for more than bp.tf price, they'll continue increasing their value in refined.
By making keys worth more and more will make scrap priceless. This will ruin EVERYTGHING!
We're not making keys worth more, we're reflecting the increasing price of keys...
this has to stop....please
Are people suggesting price changes to keys just to facilitate the economy crash faster so we can get it over with?
Welp, looks like I won't be selling my TF2 Inv for keys to sell for CSGO items...
To all those people complaining about key prices
1. 10-10.33 is only $2.24, that's less then mann co
2. "The economy is gonna crash" that's what they said when keys were rising to 7 ref
3. the only way the economy is gonna crash is if people stop trading
Yes the key prices are getting higher but you need to deal with it
you smell it? yeaaah ****posters
Glad i stopped playing this worthless game. Because of ****ty players,****ty teams,and ****ty economy with "suggests" like this.
Just raise it to 5 buds and delete the game,please.
Good for you?
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23264536 - Buys keys for 10.33 - 11.00
Stop raising the damn price
sold for 11 ref
he wanted to buy 4 but I was only selling 1
I don't think anyone will read this with the amount of comments but here goes!
My bot buys keys @ 9.33 and sells @ 9.55. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23506334#latest
sold 4 keys @ 9.55:
sold thru my main due to problems:
Do currency suggestions usually take this long to review, why is it taking so long?
Don't hurt me, admins, just asking.
I disagree with this, there will always be keys, its not like one day valve is gonna take it off the mann co store. And moderators im sorry that I disagree with his statement but i'm allowed to speak my opinion, unless bp.tf is communist...
As sad as it makes me to see keys go this high... Upboat.
Why hasn't it been accepted/denied yet? been 4 days...
Bought one for 10 ref and one for 10.33.
4 days ago, this was a downvote, but things changed since then
Bought 4 for 10.33 http://imgur.com/OKpHkAv
hey, heres my trade where i bought a key for 10.33 ref, it sold in about 7 minutes.
Inflation Everywhere. O.O
I'm surprised this hasn't been accepted yet