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~63.94 ref
Unique Mann Co. Supply Crate Key
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1054 votes down
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    Then why no 4.66-4.77?

      Because 4.66-4.77 equals in about 3 days, we'll have 4.77-4.88.

      if you collect a decent proof, a range of 4.66-4.77 would be better

        http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10112439 - I was buying at 4.66 and even then that took a long time

          lol... wut about... NO

            why do people keep using TF2 finance as proof?

              It's evidence, not necessarily proof. You wouldn't consider a single source (one link) proof either, nor should tf2finance be considered proof.

                Curious, why isn't it weighted higher. tf2finance samples recent sales to create a running avg. The reported number is a real number based on many sales. In that sense, it isn't one source. Also, why is there only buyer trades shown? Where sellers? Downvote

                  If you notice, there are currently buyers above the currently reflected price. Not just one of them, either. Not to mention the plentiful amount of buyers at the high end of the currently reflected price.


                  If the majority of non-quicksell buyers are at the high end of the current range or above, why would you even need to show sellers?

                Can i ask whats so bad about using TF2 finance?

                wait -

                wtf?

                wasnt finance at like 4.66 yesterday?

                i smell something bad going on.

                http://i.imgur.com/86rDLJh.png?3

                gotta make a new on of these soon

                my imgur is acting weird, though. not allowing me to paste a new image?

                  yolo


                  something smells fishy

                      aaha, funny

                      i didn't actually sell them for that much

                        I was just curious as to what exactly you saw as fishy about this suggestion. You were willing to sell keys for 4.66 refined a week before this suggestion was even made. Are you just not making the connection between your personal ordeals and the rising price of keys or what exactly is causing you to have doubt about this suggestion?

                          i doubt everything in this suggestion

                          i doubt key inflation

                          i also doubt his range

                          the fishy thing is finance.

                          yesterday, was 4.65. i saw. now, it's 4.80. it is increasing every day. well, not much to wait until people waste 5 ref for a key and stop buying them!

                    how many keys tf2 finance track???

                    tf2finance= 4.65 Refined


                    nah

                      yeah, i just checked

                      oh god

                      i swear im blind or something

                      i must've miss-read this price

                      i thought it was like 4.77 or something

                      still

                      he says its at 4.72

                      when its rly 4.65

                      uh mai gawd

                        "At time of posting"

                          its 4.78 dude

                        it hasn't even been 24 hours yet...

                          Dude i hate these key prices it keeps raising stop the damn lowballers and highballers :\

                              This key raising is out of greed. You guys don't understand how the market is going to crash... every economy needs low-class people who can work their way up and in our economy more and more people are becoming richer so they are bringing the key price with them but if we want to have a good economy we have to have the keys stay down so we don't only have a middle-class and a high-class it doesn't work that way. TF2Finance explains why the keys are going up and its because of the corrupt mods and people being greedy on this site, if you really are concerned with that look at the "Rinse and Repeat" method on the update log thing. Anyways, I'm not exactly mad about the key prices going up but if anything I'm mad that we are ruining the game as we speak. It's not going to last much longer if the key price goes up it just won't be inviting to people trying to get involved. We have to change something about our actions now, or else we really are all fucked. How funny would a TF2 Depression be? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929 soon.

                                Several things wrong with your comment, let's address them.


                                "Periods of selling and high volumes of trading were interspersed with brief periods of rising prices and recovery."


                                Seeing any stops and starts in the TF2 Finance graph? Anything but a general upward trend? Any instability within keys, such as going up AND DOWN?


                                "After the Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act was enacted in mid-June, the Dow dropped again, stabilizing above 200"


                                Seeing anything from Valve that would place an increased and direct competition to the supply of keys? Something that would cause direct competition to the price in USD for them to try and undercut each other? There is the SteamCommunity Beta Market, but that's still purchased with USD and from Valve. The Smoot-Hawley Tarriff act was intended to try and ease competition from across the Atlantic so that US businesses could recover. I'm seeing no such act by Valve, and that means no such panic/crash.


                                "This key raising is out of greed."


                                Look at my friend BQE. He tracked the amount of keys and the amount of refined metal in Stats.tf (NOT keys for sale, or anything. Just keys and just metal.) and noticed across a 1 week period, the amount of keys were decreasing, and the amount of refined was increasing. Infact, over the past 5-6 days, that's the only time that the amount of keys stopped decreasing. There may be greed involved as a factor, but there are definitely other influences at play here.


                                " every economy needs low-class people who can work their way up and in our economy more and more people are becoming richer so they are bringing the key price with them"


                                OK. Wow. Just... no. NO economy needs low-class people that can work their way up. That's the 'American Dream' aka social mobility, and NOT related to this. "More and more people are becoming richer" Aye, and lots more people are joining the game [i]and actually playing[/]. As for bringing the key price up with them, I have nothing that can directly countermand that statement, since it's just plain wrong, but let me ask instead a rhetorical question: If given the choice to pay more for a key, or the same, which would you choose?


                                "we have to have the keys stay down so we don't only have a middle-class and a high-class it doesn't work that way."


                                How so? It can work that way. Look at Russia right now. They still have an economy, there is still social mobility, and there are still a vast number of opportunities to make money. Russia's probably a bad example, so let's look at something you would be more conducive towards. How about the UK? How about India? Or how about the good old US of A? Heck, even China. If you remove the lower class, the middle class becomes the new lower class, and it will reach a social equilibrium. In other words, if you have a set [5,6,7,8,9,10], and you remove 5 and 6, there's still a number that is the lowest number in the set.


                                "TF2Finance explains why the keys are going up and its because of the corrupt mods and people being greedy on this site"


                                People don't buy and sell keys on this site in sufficient quantity to affect the prices. Did you even read Base64's explanation btw? He never mentioned the mods. As for corruption, I have seen no reason to believe that they are. You have any proof of your accusation?


                                "Anyways, I'm not exactly mad about the key prices going up but if anything I'm mad that we are ruining the game as we speak"


                                You certainly sound mad, and you use appeals to emotion alot in your argument.


                                "We have to change something about our actions now, or else we really are all fucked"


                                Sound like something familiar? Such as, I dunno, Mayan Apocalypse 2012? Or any other harbinger of doom thing?


                                "How funny would a TF2 Depression be?"


                                Pretty damn funny actually. For one thing, it'd be an economist's dream to get into whether or not Capitalism is actually viable, or if it's gonna blow up in our face, given that TF2's following the US economy at an accelerated pace. Incidentally, it's currently like the 1960's economy, not the 1920s. No increased spending, no increased industry, and I'm pretty sure there have been no World Wars in TF2 or other such influences to cause a boom that would lead to a crash.


                                "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929 soon."


                                See the beginning, please.

                                    So I guess since you typed out this huge response I might as well give some counter-points. Firstly, you tried to directly compare my mentioning of the stock market crash to the TF2 Market and that was not exactly what I was going for. That point was simply talking about how inflation ruined the economy, It wasn't meant to be so in depth. I don't completely understand what you are trying to bash about my class system point. I take it you didn't look into the Rinse and Repeat problem because if you went there you would understand a bit more. Also, you want a corrupt mod? How 'bout Long218, he isn't mod anymore but when he was he put up quite a few suggestions about raising the key price. If you would take a look at his BP he has hundreds of keys. The suggestions would always get passed and I add him to ask why are you doing this and how he is going to ruin the economy and he simply says "poorfag" and de-adds me. Your rhetorical questions is also pretty fucking dumb, I may not completely understand it but from what I got out of it I can ask this, "If you have hundreds of keys and wanted the price to go up, why the fuck would you want to buy any?" But yeah, most of your points seem like things a Neanderthal would say and I'd love to hear back from you.

                                      "But yeah, most of your points seem like things a Neanderthal would say"


                                      See what I meant about appeals to emotion?


                                      "Also, you want a corrupt mod? How 'bout Long218, he isn't mod anymore"


                                      I'm pretty sure Long wasn't ever a mod, just a frequent submitter. I may be mistaken though, do you have any references?


                                      "If you would take a look at his BP he has hundreds of keys."


                                      He's also tradebanned, which will not be reversed, for dealing with carded keys. You're pointing to Mr. Burns and saying anyone with money is a Mr. Burns, and since we're not as rich as Mr. Burns, we are better people. The debate isn't who's better, but rather are they still people. The mods, idk if Long ever was one, are people. They make mistakes, and they also try and fix those mistakes. To ask anything more of them is simply foolish, as you ask less of yourself.


                                      "I take it you didn't look into the Rinse and Repeat problem because if you went there you would understand a bit more"


                                      Rinse and repeat? Do you mean positive feedback? Which has been disproved by the same Base64 you cited? I take it you didn't really read his article then.


                                      "That point was simply talking about how inflation ruined the economy"


                                      Then why make a point and a direct comparison, and predict it's going to go along a similar route if you're only comparing the inflation? Try taking an Economics 101 class sometime, or even just read through the Wikipedia article on inflation. Deflation (AKA keys regressing to 2.66 as so many people call for. Not you specifically, just many people) would wreck the economy. In order for a healthy economy with increasing population (Birth rates being above 0, New players entering TF2) to exist, you need inflation. Instead of having people 'having a baby' AKA introducing people to the game, what's happening is people are lying that they have a baby and claiming the benefits, without contributing to the economy, AKA idling and alts.


                                      "If you have hundreds of keys and wanted the price to go up, why the fuck would you want to buy any?"


                                      Well, to lower supply. If you lower supply and demand's the same, prices go up, meaning you can sell yours at the high price. Same demand, newfound supply means price goes down, and you can buy way more keys with the metal you have. Backpack.tf could be price manipulating if it was a cycle like that, but as it is, the most it can be accused of is accelerating a positive feedback loop. Metal goes down in price, people see keys raise in price, and buy them at increased prices, driving the demand for metal down, leading to a lower price for it.


                                      "and I'd love to hear back from you."


                                      Sounds like sarcasm, but I'll oblige you anyways.

                                      your friend BQE needs to gather a lot more data than a week's worth. i've been collecting data for 6 weeks now.


                                      NOTES: data collected by scraping stats.tf. metal does not include rec or scrap. i included buds to show that stats.tf is still learning about the #s of items available (private backpacks going public and vice versa; backpacks getting scanned for the first time when someone visits bp.tf, etc)


                                      2013.02.28: refined: 1164811, keys: 466737 ratio: 2.496 (buds: 57516)

                                      2013.03.15: refined: 1194410, keys: 501687 ratio: 2.380 (buds: 59698)

                                      2013.03.31: refined: 1230294, keys: 494290 ratio: 2.489 (buds: 61697)

                                      2013.04.15: refined: 1263131, keys: 487327 ratio: 2.592 (buds: 62959)


                                      so there was definitely an uptick in key volume in mid march and it'll be interesting to see if there's a monthly trend of some sort as i continue to collect this data. it's quite possible that we are missing a big piece of the puzzle to the key prices by reacting to the market too quickly. as Poncho Eastwood often points out, people buy new keys with real world money so that will be tied to paychecks and such.


                                      EDIT: please also note that the number of buds "increased" by 8% over this 6 weeks period. we know that buds are not being created so this must be because stats.tf simply doesn't know about all the buds yet.


                                      here's the REALLY interesting thing tho, the number of refined has risen only 7.7% over the same period. we know that refined is entering the system through drops. therefore metal *is* being used for something (crafting) despite the claims to the contrary by the bitter, no fun, nickle and diming traders

                                        Something I think you missed when critiquing his argument:


                                        "Anyways, I'm not exactly mad about the key prices going up but if anything I'm mad that we are ruining the game as we speak"


                                        You know what you can do? Stop trading. You act like the main reason everyone plays TF2 is to trade and show off pixels that sit atop their pixelated head. Yes, trading is the only thing some people do, but there's plenty more people who play TF2 to, you know, PLAY TF2, not trade.

                                          tl;dr


                                          I stopped voting on key prices looong ago. I just come here to see if I can whine at an admin to fix the price suggestion process.

                                            I think that's what the forums are for.

                                            Or what you can try is add one of the admins on Steam and talk with them that way.

                                            The game would die without the trading community. This would happen because of how little Valve would make out of the game because tons of people buy keys to use in trading (just one example).

                                              How'd it manage before trading, then?

                                                Take note that the game was out for nearly 3 years before trading was added in the game.

                                                  It managed without trading because the game wasn't free to play then, take a look at this https://forums.playfire.com/general-discussion/thread/106892

                                                    So you're saying trading is the only thing keeping TF2 afloat? If that's what you're trying to say, I suggest you go meet some actual F2P players (not idlers) and people who loathe trading (e.g., half of the UGC community).


                                                    By the way, the writer of the thread failed to note that Valve gets 15% of all game sales on Steam that is not developed by them, along with the fees from Steam Market and the fact that Valve has been around since Quake times. You know, late 90's.

                                                    It adds up over time and Valve just keeps picking up the pace because they are fantastic.

                                              You analysed that person statement and what looks like you've spent a great deal of effort and time in doing so and still came up with the wrong conclusion. The game's market can be compared to real life, but real life can't be compared to this game, I'am going to use your statement as an example.


                                              " How so? It can work that way. Look at Russia right now. They still have an economy, there is still social mobility, and there are still a vast number of opportunities to make money."


                                              in response to, "we have to have the keys stay down so we don't only have a middle-class and a high-class it doesn't work that way."


                                              I not gonna go off on you, and this only a fraction of the tragedy of what you had posted earlier but, how the hell could compare the success or decline of this economy to real life situation? there are jobs! many jobs which supply a steady income. Loans, pension, royalties, financial aid just to name a few in which you could take in income in the real world. Increase job and less taxes could have created a remedy of success and created stability for Russia


                                              Now to the game. The most workable way and most used way is buy for less, and sell for more and it is one of two possible methods to make more "money" in the TF2 economy.


                                              Now what the guy above me had said and mean't in his reply was that if keys are too high folks that are new to the game or people who are not "well-off" won't be able to afford, which is true and is one of the many reason why the increase value should stop.


                                                "The game's market can be compared to real life, but real life can't be compared to this game"


                                                If your premise is flawed, your conclusions are flawed as well. In this case, your premise is that the comparison is strictly one way, in which case it is an incorrect comparison and should not have been used in the first place. However, he compared it to real life as well as economic theory (see the Black Friday Wikipedia Article he linked to claiming it or something analogous to it was impending). The premise that A is to B, but B is not A is thusly flawed, as A was compared to B as well as B to A in the original argument whose conclusions were refuted. Therefore, the conclusions you drew from the premise are also flawed. QED.


                                                "Now what the guy above me had said and mean't in his reply was that if keys are too high folks that are new to the game or people who are not "well-off" won't be able to afford, which is true and is one of the many reason why the increase value should stop."


                                                Should stop and will stop are very different things. In addition, if you read through his statement, there's no concrete evidence of anything, no attempt at analysis, multiple appeals to emotion (see also his reponse to my rebuttal, where he compared me to a Neanderthal. Cro-Magnon, frankly, would be a better insult, since that comparison at least alludes to me than as something less developed than a modern human, rather than one of the most successful hunter-gatherers that ever evolved.) and accusations of corruption by pointing to non-existant mods and a distinct lack of proof.

                                            I think people are buying keys for 4.66 refined, waiting like a day, and selling them for more. And thus begins the unstoppable process of "backpack.tf"

                                            inb4 everything

                                              Little tip to new comers: This was the first comment.

                                            I think a range really is better.

                                              I think a range would be better ...

                                                I would suggest a range, and also more sellers. You seemed to have only included buyers. Quote from Baloo: "TF2finance explicitly states "Please use this page for daily average or long-term trends only." If you would allow this suggestion to stay up for more than a day and more preferably between 2-3 days, it'd help show whether or not the trend continues to progress upwards overtime."

                                                  >Quotes Baloo

                                                  >Cool

                                                    You were saying?

                                                      The reason I have only included buyers is because buyers are more reliable proof.

                                                        Oh you keep telling yourself that...

                                                        Doesn't matter, this suggestion will get accepted anyway because votes don't matter in these "community" suggested prices.

                                                        Welcome to fuckpack.tf, the new Spreadshit

                                                          Shoo!!! If you don't want to be here, just leave and stop whining.

                                                            So what exactly is wrong with backpack.tf?

                                                              The mods don't give a shit about votes. They say it's "community moderated" but really it's just a few people accepting price suggestions, not caring what the community thinks.

                                                                The mods actually do care about votes, but voting comes second to price accuracy. If a price is disputed, then the admins will consider votes, but the admins WILL NOT allow votes to become price manipulation.

                                                        Long term trend = 1 day. The last suggestion was accepted 10 hrs ago. TF2finance was last updated 5 hrs ago. That is not long term.

                                                          Using sarcasm is not the best approach, considering you are the suggester.

                                                            >Implies that i'm using sarcasm

                                                            >Doesn't know what sarcasm is

                                                        Keys need a range...

                                                          Please explain?

                                                            What kinda explanation u need now? Tell me which part you didnt understood. i will explain that one.

                                                              Pretty sure his comment was a "one-part argument," so to speak. It had only one point. It was only a sentence. Heck, it was only 4 words. "Keys need a range."


                                                              I'd like him to explain that bit to me. Why exactly do keys "need a range"? Is there a tf2 rule book somewhere that says "Thou shalt include a range in the price of keys"?


                                                              If so, send me a copy.

                                                            they aren't required

                                                              in fact range for keys started this all along.

                                                              your proof disproves itself, tf2finance at 4.72 and 4 buyers at 4.77 show a range of 4.66-4.77 is definitely better

                                                                4.66-4.77 is better. Also I love how people blame backpack.tf for the rise in key prices, but it goes over 4.70 when the average is 4.55 on here.

                                                                  well, there's an anticipation now that bp.tf will catch up to the outrageous prices on outpost - and it will. it's a self fulfilling prophecy that only the *buyers* can prevent

                                                                  Comments on most key suggestions: "Y U MAKE KEY HIGHER??? MANIPULATORS! CORRUPTED ADMINS! BLABLAHBLAH"


                                                                  Comments on my key suggestion (At time of post): "You should probably suggest 4.66-4.77. That would be more accurate than 4.66."


                                                                  Wut?

                                                                    Just wait.

                                                                      Most people that do that are probably not up or in school lol

                                                                        That's cause it's the old hands such as Jymotion, Laggylaptop, and people who cite Baloo right now. Wait around an hour for the gibbering horde to descend upon this suggestion.

                                                                          Killjoy suggested I do 4.55-4.77 refined on my suggestion.


                                                                          As far as that manipulators comment goes:


                                                                          http://i.imgur.com/FnBr7se.png - This guy makes a sarcastic statement about how voters don't matter in my suggestion for keys to be 4.55-4.66 refined

                                                                          http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10059824 - He's still currently trying to buy a key for 4.77 refined

                                                                            baloo you are totally right i am buying at 4.77 ref since 6 days ago

                                                                            i was lucky to buy 6 for 4 ref 10 at 4.55 nut the majority 80 keys + where at 4.66-4.77

                                                                            well guys if you dont want your keys expensive sell them cheap...

                                                                            that way buds might no crash!

                                                                            oh wait buds have crashed?

                                                                            well whatever i love cheap buds and expensive keys, that will result to infinity buds for me :)

                                                                            i love that little thing.


                                                                                Please refrain from personal attacks

                                                                                  How come my comment is personal attack? I ask him if he is or not, not saying he is. I made this question according to his conduct.

                                                                                  Btw, his comment is obviously a libel, I need him to clarify I am not manipulating the price.

                                                                                      You called him mentally retarded?

                                                                                        I ASKED him, with a interrogative sentence.

                                                                                        And he said I was a price manipulator with affirmative sentence. Which is a libel.

                                                                                  Hey Mr. detective baloo say something. Or you found that you were wrong? Or you cant write?

                                                                                    I feel no reason to converse with someone whose first objective when responding to someone questioning his actions is to degrade that person. If you had actually wanted me to explain myself, then I would have expected you to do so with at least a hint of civility. I do not see myself as wrong in the least bit and have a greater grasp on the English language and its structure than it would appear you command.

                                                                                      They you think its okay calling other as manipulator without legit proof? huh? Once again Mr detective baloo? Or you think ppl who doesnt agree with your suggestion is manipulator? But the worst thing is you dont even understand if ppl agrees with you or not LOL

                                                                                just seeing my bp value increasing everyday...

                                                                                  same here brah!

                                                                                  No range = Ok!

                                                                                  Range = Highballers / Lowballers = increase in price

                                                                                    range nowadays prefered and also ,,it is decided ,, keys will keep rising ,, we can just watch and see where it goes ,, stop bitching about it guys

                                                                                      ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,TO,MANY,COMMAS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

                                                                                        ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

                                                                                        n,,,,ooo,,,t,t,,t,t,,t,,,,,,,,,,,e,,,n,,,,o,,,u,,,g,,,h,, c,,o,,,mmmm,,,,,,,,a,,a,s,,s,s,s,,s,s,s,s,,ss,,s,s,s,s,s,

                                                                                      I remember when I could get 2 Keys for this much...

                                                                                      Last suggestion accepted 14hrs ago...

                                                                                        congrats, you can tell time.

                                                                                      downvote, everyone know 1 key is 2 keys

                                                                                        [sarcasm]Hey, Can I buy your two keys for a key?[/sarcasm]

                                                                                        the only reason for rising the key price lie this is backpack.tf. pffffff and you guys really belive that backpack.tf prices are community run, it is decided by the people who wanna make money out of TF2. Im not saying that the only reason for price shooting is backpack.tf. But they have a vital role in increasing it so sharply. Now lets hope that some new price checking sites will come.


                                                                                        PS:- Public (Including me) is the idiot here,


                                                                                        Edit:- Before I used to say spreadSHIT, now I would like to say FUC*back.tf

                                                                                          Increasing =/= Reporting


                                                                                          We are only reporting an accurate price here. If you believe that backpack.tf is one of the top reasons why the Keys are rising, discuss it in the forum and show us some good points.

                                                                                            Ok, does no one stop and think for more than 2 seconds?


                                                                                            People use backpack.tf to price their items. They come here, see the price, and put it higher in their trade


                                                                                            Tghen backpack.tf goes "Oh well look at that, they are selling at that price now. ?Better change the price of keys to 'report' this"


                                                                                            They do so, then BOOM, who would have thought that the prices of keys in trades are now higher?


                                                                                            The people defending the price of keys rising are now more annoying/senseless than the people objecting.


                                                                                            You guys don't give a shit about facts/pay attention to reality. You just make the same claim over and over, and continue the cycle.

                                                                                              > Tghen backpack.tf goes "Oh well look at that, they are selling at that price now. ?Better change the price of keys to 'report' this"


                                                                                              Nope, that's not how we are working here. We have proof of the sales.

                                                                                              Proof can be:

                                                                                              - New metal in the BP of the trader

                                                                                              - Screenshots

                                                                                              - Comments like "Added to buy X Keys"

                                                                                              - Own experiences. (Already did that for my own suggestion, you may check it)


                                                                                              And about those facts: Insults and comments like "owns 83 obvious price manipulator" are not facts.

                                                                                              This "cycle" exists, this is obvious. Why does it exist? Because buyers are still paying the rising prices of Keys. One week without demand for Keys will cause the price to crash.


                                                                                              I have my facts, proven by the community.

                                                                                                >This "cycle" exists, this is obvious. Why does it exist? Because buyers are still paying the rising prices of Keys. One week without demand for Keys will cause the price to crash.


                                                                                                Exactly. People don't seem to understand this yet, we're just gonna have to wait until demand drops and then things will begin to return to normal.

                                                                                                If you say it's a cycle then you mean keys will go back to where they were if we continue, right?

                                                                                                  I think he meant a vicious spiral.

                                                                                              The prices here are community run, mostly. But on key suggestions, votes don't matter at all. Since a lot of them are biased towards lower prices. Your supposed to vote based on the PROOF. NOT based on, whether or not you think key prices should go up or not. but that doesn't happen on key suggestions. Even if there is a ton of proof showing that the suggested price is correct, people will downvote with out providing any counter proof. Why? Because they don't like the price. And voting wasn't meant to be based on your opinion. It was meant to be based on the proof. This site doesn't create the price, but reports it. Although i agree that it's a big factor in the rising key prices. But it's not the site's fault. Sellers will always highball, it's the buyers that are willing to buy from these highballers, providing the proof needed to raise the price.

                                                                                                Votes are Likes and Dislikes on Keysuggestions.

                                                                                                People vote for what they would like to see, nothing else.


                                                                                                  Well y keep the voting system then? How does it matter to this website if people like it or not? Admins do not give a shit about votes. If they see that the proposing person has shown enough proof then the votes can go down the drain. I will not say it is wrong practice but this is what generally happens.

                                                                                                    What generally happens is that the community doesn't want that the right price is reported here. Votes are only one of the factors why an admin accepts or declines a suggestion. This system is not for biased votes.


                                                                                                    But I can understand you, it looks like that they don't care about votes. Just look at some comments, you get my point about "biased votes" when you read those.

                                                                                                  Voting is ALL ABOUT OPINION.


                                                                                                  That's the reason we have elections for presidents. Hello?

                                                                                                    You can't compare price suggestions with elections for presidents..

                                                                                                      I'm not, just pointing out the reason for voting on anything is to express one's opinion.


                                                                                                      I really need to work on my social skills, I can't get my point across first time around.

                                                                                                      This is based on opinion. Opinion of whether or not you think the suggested price reflects the market. When voting for a president, do you just go in and vote for a random person? No. You base it on proof. Proof of how they can make something better. If you vote blindly, your an idiot. Voting is about opinion. But you need to base your opinion ON something. A baseless opinion is pointless. This site's goal was to reflect the market prices as accurately as possible. NOT make the price what people want. You don't go to an election, and vote for potato. Your supposed to vote on who you think should be the president, that was the point of the vote. It was NOT what you like to eat. The point of the vote here is, whether you think the suggested price reflects the market price. NOT what you want the price to be. And for people that think backpack.tf manipulates prices, if you don't agree with a price, your completely free to suggest another. If there is enough proof, they will accept, unless counter proof is provided. If you think keys should be 2.33, go suggest a price, and find enough proof of people selling for that much, and it'll pass, unless someone provides better counterproof.

                                                                                                    FUC*back.tf +1

                                                                                                      Then why are you still using it?

                                                                                                        Because 95% does, so to even be able to partake in trading you need it. Same reason Mac OS-X isn't that popular: the vicious mainstream cycle.

                                                                                                        Just one question: If bp mods are manipulating key price why they dont also manipulate the votes result?

                                                                                                          The funny thing is there are 2 ppls downvoted me, but they dont even explain the reason. And Im not even defending for the mods, Im just wondering.

                                                                                                          Wait....what?


                                                                                                          how does

                                                                                                          backpack.tf

                                                                                                          turn into

                                                                                                          fu**back.tf


                                                                                                          Did you even think before spitting out that nonsense? You're trying to insult a website that you're currently using, and you can't even do it properly.

                                                                                                            Yeah, of course we are the only ones to blame. Not the fact that people want keys more than metal because of the steam market. Not the fact that steam is banning carders so less cheap keys get into the market.


                                                                                                            Are you one of those kids who only cries about shit, or do you actually care?


                                                                                                            If you actually care, then I suggest you read:

                                                                                                            http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/992-bud-crash-of-2013/

                                                                                                            http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/641-yet-another-key-price-topic-no-flame-wars-please-discussion-only/

                                                                                                            http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/983-sup-with-the-key-jump-in/

                                                                                                            http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/546-my-stance-on-reason-for-increase-in-key-prices/


                                                                                                            If you just want to cry about it, then let me know so I can ban you for spamming useless posts.

                                                                                                            Its normal that people will buy keys for bigger value due to earning more on it

                                                                                                              inb4 keys are 10 ref

                                                                                                                inb4 i give a shit.

                                                                                                                Im excited. Soon my keys will be worth 5 ref!

                                                                                                                I remember wheni sold keys 2 for 5 ref. Heh, now im getting 5 ref each. Freakin ridiculous. But it is an economy. The rich ones will survive and everyone else will quit XD

                                                                                                                  And then keys will be worth nothing because there will be no one left to trade with. Have fun with that.

                                                                                                                    We can still trade with the rich :)

                                                                                                                      Yeah... enlighten me, but how exactly would that work?

                                                                                                                    keys will be 5 ref because people like you..selling keys in OP for 5 REF each, you are one of the cancers in tf2 ecconomy

                                                                                                                      soo....After having that trade up (and taking peoples shit FOREVER) I finally have a steady line of proof. Fortunately, there were ACTIVE members of the community who learned how to use my trade correctly AKA CHECKING TO SEE HOW MANY I SOLD.


                                                                                                                      I have not sold 1 for 5 keys. I was added several times because peopel asked me how many they sold. I gave em the info, and now they are using as a weapon gainst raising key prices.

                                                                                                                      If someone added me for 5 ref, i was gonna do it. No doubt. But no one wanted to pay such a hefty price. Even with prices getting close to 5 ref, no one will actually pay that much


                                                                                                                      So please, next time you wish to bash my experiments, i hope you look REALLY close and look for PROOF keys are not going to be worth 5 ref instead of just complaining. That goes for the same 3 people who downvoted me and the 5 who liked your comment.

                                                                                                                    Although I disagree with the use of TF2Finance as a source.

                                                                                                                    And we all know a big reason of the rising is because these suggestions get accepted, fact is; They're being sold at the prices mentioned, whether we like it or not.

                                                                                                                    Upvoted.

                                                                                                                      Hey price is outdated again. Better make another suggestion

                                                                                                                        isnt that how its supposed to work?

                                                                                                                          The "outdated" was sarcastic, more aiming at that people will always sell for ridiculous prices above norm, than that the price is actually outdated. By the logic of you guys, the price is always outdated. Please don't turn this into a metal/keys = free/notfree discussion, or about idle accounts and backpack and such. There will always be two parties: The people who blame the Backpack people, and the backpack people blaming the others.

                                                                                                                        It hasn't been even 1 Day since the last was accepted.

                                                                                                                        Score: -99

                                                                                                                        Accepted about 19 hours ago

                                                                                                                        Score: -143

                                                                                                                        Accepted 3 days ago

                                                                                                                        Score: -96

                                                                                                                        Accepted 6 days ago

                                                                                                                        why do this website have a downvote button?

                                                                                                                            voting will be put in consideration by mods if and only if it is not for personal gain of voters and are biased.

                                                                                                                              So let me get this straight.

                                                                                                                              If you vote for key price to go down the mod might find you bias, and your vote wont count.

                                                                                                                              BUT

                                                                                                                              If you have a backpack with 50 keys and sudgest a raise in key price it won´t find you bias?

                                                                                                                                Everyone that has anything to do with #SAVETHEKEYS gets +30 likes even when there is irrefutable proof right in front of their face that the proposed price is correct. That shows biased voters to me.

                                                                                                                                  Using highballers as proof to raise prices seems bias to me.

                                                                                                                                  And voting up prices knowing this is also bias.

                                                                                                                                  If you have a backpack with 50000 keys and show us that keys are being traded for the price you suggest often enough, then why would it matter how many keys you have? If you downvote a suggestion with that kind of proof, then obviously you're against the new price because it affects you negatively.

                                                                                                                                    The problem is that the proof is faulty. I can easily go to the outpost and find a bunch of highballers selling keys for 1 Scrap+ the price here, then use that as proof to raise the price, then they raise the price 1 more scrap and keeps going until who knows when.


                                                                                                                                Votes are based on the personal preference of the voter.

                                                                                                                                  make a stupid key suggestion pricing keys at 2 scraps and you'll probs get like a few hundred upvotes, does it mean it will pass? :L


                                                                                                                                  truth is everyone is bias, you'll be lying to yourself if you said it wasnt

                                                                                                                                  Upvoted, just sold a key on dispenser.tf in 10 minutes for 4.77. Higher range would probably be better, though.

                                                                                                                                    No range? I'd like to see how this turns out.

                                                                                                                                      no the disliking fad. tis has come here too O.O

                                                                                                                                    haha, look at this guy backpack. i dont see how he would benefit from having keys, do you? hahaha

                                                                                                                                      Stop using tf2finance AS PROOF.

                                                                                                                                        why? It might help the price to be passed, but it supports them so it couldn't hurt.

                                                                                                                                          how many keys tf2 finance track???

                                                                                                                                            if it tracks even one it still helps. Its proof just like an outpost link, not indisputable, but still useful.

                                                                                                                                              tf2 finance track less 75 keys per day..i have doubts about the site

                                                                                                                                                Which means it's equivalent to 75 outpost links? Not all-encompassing, but it definitely has value as proof.

                                                                                                                                        What is ref, baby don't rise me, don't rise me, no more no more :c

                                                                                                                                          I'm actually glad the key price is going up, more reason to get me out of this greedy economy.

                                                                                                                                              good luck waiting for the bubble to pops. I have been waiting for 4.5 months now.

                                                                                                                                              It's so fun to see keys rise now. Considering i've cashed out.


                                                                                                                                              Can't wait until keys crash.


                                                                                                                                                yay, you cashed out, you're so special!

                                                                                                                                                  Yep!


                                                                                                                                                  Because i totally said something about me being special!

                                                                                                                                                http://www.tf2wh.com/item.php?id=5021;6;2007c65ba3d3acb661e57ee5550676fc


                                                                                                                                                Here is my reason to downvote. The stock limit has been adjusted TWICE - and almost filled to capacity TWICE - at an estimated value of 4.33, according to this website. Two weeks ago, it was impossible to find a key. Now the Warehouse is almost full of them.

                                                                                                                                                  Lol Warehouse.

                                                                                                                                                    You don't understand why i put it there, do you?

                                                                                                                                                      Totally not.

                                                                                                                                                        A month ago, before the site was restructured, you had to wait to reserve a key on warehouse. Now, since it has been restructured, reflecting the state of the current market, the keys have had their overstock change twice because they were filling up so fast. Over 1000 went into the website YESTERDAY at a Warehouse average of 4.33, averaged according to this website. and they are not coming out as fast as they are coming in. The weight of that information is significant, because that information outweighs the mere 300-500 keys that are sold at outpost at 4.66, the very price the OP is trying to suggest.

                                                                                                                                                          The reason they don't go out as fast is because tf2wh doesn't accept metal anymore.

                                                                                                                                                            But they do accept metal. The problem is that the KEYS aren't leaving the website as fast as they used to. This would dispel the notion that keys are selling like hotcakes at 4.66 and 4.77 (which they aren't). If those keys are in the warehouse at the projected warehouse equivalent of 4.31, according to this website, it is a telling sign that people are not buying keys.

                                                                                                                                                            You are also forgetting that TF2WH has it's own community that buys items. You also seem to forget that since they are a big value currency, it is attractive to buy a key for something like Bills, Salvaged Crates , Salvaged Stranges, Festive Stranges. Buds, and Max Heads. But right now, as it stands, the Earbuds are overstocked, the keys are hovering above 95% stock, and they are not coming out. I would be very cautious about selling keys right now.

                                                                                                                                                          Proof of 300-500 Keys which are being traded per day through outpost.

                                                                                                                                                            But if the keys are not being taken out of the warehouse as quickly as they have been, at a warehouse estimate of 4.31, it would imply that keys are hard to sell at 4.33, instead of the falsehood that selling for 4.66 is extremely easy. This many keys being pumped into the warehouse is such a short timespan implies that traders are certain a crash is near, and so they are cashing in their chips before the market goes belly up.

                                                                                                                                                            Warehouse is overstocked on buds, and almost close to being overstocked at Warehouse (in some case, it IS overstocked). If the keys are not going out as fast as they are going in, and people are selling off their buds like they are now, a crash is not possible. It is IMMINENT.

                                                                                                                                                            EDIT: Calculating the selling price of keys at 13440, and estimating the buying price of refined at 3250, the key sells at a 4.14 estimate to Warehouse. If that many people are willing to dump keys are being dumped into the keys at that price and few keys are being sold at the estimate of 4.31, would the price being suggested be considered accurate?

                                                                                                                                                  We might as well leave it here because if we raise this price the 5 ref price on tf2 outpost would become 5.33 and then it would exponentially grow until keys are 10 refined

                                                                                                                                                    check outpost, even with backpack.tf at 4.55-4.66, 5 ref is already happening..stop posting the same bullshit comment on every key suggestion, bp.tf is just reflecting the current market value, which is constantly going up..it's not like all sellers are 1 scrap above the bp.tf-range, then suddenly everybody increases their price once it changes on here..the cycle happens with or without bp.tf

                                                                                                                                                    there is my trade!!

                                                                                                                                                      IM SO CONFLICTED!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                        There's no point in voting, this suggestion has everything an admin would instantly accept at :


                                                                                                                                                        tf2.finance (broken as fuck)

                                                                                                                                                        tf2op links (were highballers and retards roam)


                                                                                                                                                        So, just save your time. Look at the past 5v2r32jdewa suggestions. All negative votes, all accepted.

                                                                                                                                                          You know what it doesn't have?

                                                                                                                                                          Counter-proof

                                                                                                                                                            Scroll down a little, someone did a proof-check (Thank heavens).


                                                                                                                                                            EDIT: Also, I'd like to point out: If the price of a key changes on a nearly daily basis, and it is, any trades with sales before the new suggestion passes are immediately rendered un-useable as proofs, according to backpack.tf's FAQ, Rules, and the community. So it's nearly impossible to find counter-proof, as there are few people who sell keys upfront, and even fewer who buy them.

                                                                                                                                                              If you look at them, they are all disproving by saying that they dont have any new keys or metal in their backpacks. This is obviously incorrect because they are assuming they keep the items in their backpack for all eternity, not using them for other purchases or some other task. Also disproving the buyers in this way is also useless because the simple fact that their buying for that much is proof that people are willing to pay above the current high end, justifying a higher price.

                                                                                                                                                            Let's say I totally agree with you. Let's say you actually care about it to do something. Alright, convince me keys are whatever price you think they are. Hell, convince everyone by making a suggestion.

                                                                                                                                                            Increase Price = NO !

                                                                                                                                                                Something selling at a lower price means nothing in the TF2conomy, there's no one going that low to counter it, If there's something cheaper somewhere else, people will go buy there, but there's no way they're going down that far that fast ever

                                                                                                                                                                  First link alone:

                                                                                                                                                                  1,027 Views -- 67 Bookmarks.

                                                                                                                                                                  "Trades done so far: 1"


                                                                                                                                                                  Not near enough actually happen at that price for it to ever actually spike back down to it. Good try though, and you guys can always swap keys back and forth for that price if you want. They're like Amish TF2 traders or something, haha. "I know things have changed, but I like them better this way. I'm just going to do it like this, even if it's more time consuming."

                                                                                                                                                                    I bet that's less than 1% of keys traded. Also: buy 2.33 ref for $0.34 each = $0.8, buy key for 2.33, sell for $1.70. Makes sense, accuracy at it's best.

                                                                                                                                                                    has anyone ever thought that all of the items worth a key are all messed up since they would stay at the same price instead of moving up with keys

                                                                                                                                                                      Question: why are they going for so much now compared to a few months ago? You can still buy them with real money for much less.

                                                                                                                                                                        Money =/= Refined metal.

                                                                                                                                                                        This doesn't fall within the suggested range, but here is someone that is selling for 4.88 ref per key, 2 days old, sold 21 and has 3 left.


                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10097821

                                                                                                                                                                          http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198083800679 this guy had 21 keys sold for4.88 ref and he as 3 left but his backpack worth what? 34 refined?


                                                                                                                                                                          kinky pie thats laughable at least..

                                                                                                                                                                          i mean you know that 24 keys are more than 100 ref right?

                                                                                                                                                                          can you do some math or check your info before you put them up mate?

                                                                                                                                                                            Buy a key, sell a key, buy a key, sell a key. They didn't have to have all 26 in their inventory at the same time. Why don't you think before you spread your ignorance?

                                                                                                                                                                            Kinky Pie. Please tell me what happened to the metal he got by selling 26 keys for 4.88 (now that guy saying sold 26 in the notes) that would be 126.88 Refined Metal. Did he made sandvich with and ate?? or did he kept it any bank locker or did he gave it you free??? Please check the proof that you bring in here. Bcs the admins in here got no time to check all that stuff, they just accept the "PROOFS" blindly. Or you must be that member of that gang involved ih the trade that you posted here.

                                                                                                                                                                              The admins check every single trade which is posted as proof.

                                                                                                                                                                                then why dont u remove links of fake trades provided as proof?

                                                                                                                                                                            being a keybanker I can say... well, prices will fluctuate depending on how my stocks are doing and my current perception of the economy, you can't really use TF2OP as legitimate proof... somebody linked me to a suggestion where one of my trades were used as proof, and I just laughed. laughed really hard. and showed my friends and they just scoffed... TF2OP proof is meaningless as its descriptions can be changed in the click of a button, and I dont see how nobody here seems capable of seeing that. and you dont know what goes on in the negotiation of the trade either. :-\ this is so dumb. what they should do for keys is that they should have some kinda API trade tracker like tf2finance and connect it on the front page or something like that. it would help a lot...

                                                                                                                                                                              Speed this shit up, 10 ref for 1 key!

                                                                                                                                                                                I didn't know Scootaloo cursed...

                                                                                                                                                                                PROOFCHECKING:

                                                                                                                                                                                Buyers @ 4.77

                                                                                                                                                                                L1: No keys or refined in inventory, no proof of keys sold

                                                                                                                                                                                L2: 5 traded

                                                                                                                                                                                L3: has 2 keys in inventory, lots of metal, obvious trader but no trades occured yet

                                                                                                                                                                                L4: Buying keys with what? I spy no keys or metal, at most bought 2 for an item.


                                                                                                                                                                                Buyers @ 4.66

                                                                                                                                                                                L1: Has only pure refined incoming, so no keys bought yet

                                                                                                                                                                                L2: No metal left, appearantly bought some days ago

                                                                                                                                                                                L3: Obvious succesful buying

                                                                                                                                                                                L4: Obviously has bought some

                                                                                                                                                                                L5: Has metal, but no keys in BP

                                                                                                                                                                                L6: Private inventory

                                                                                                                                                                                L7: Bought for all his metalm tries to resell for 5 ref, failing (He has still his trade up when he has no metal)

                                                                                                                                                                                L8: No keys in inventory, lots of metal

                                                                                                                                                                                L9: Bought 4

                                                                                                                                                                                --Next is the trade labeled "Mattje"---

                                                                                                                                                                                L10: Bought many keys

                                                                                                                                                                                L11: According to BP has 12 new keys, also states he will lower the price rapidly (becuase he knows the peak is reached)

                                                                                                                                                                                L12: Bought some keys

                                                                                                                                                                                L13: 2 keys 4 ref in inv. can't sell/buy too many keys

                                                                                                                                                                                L14: Lots of ref, lots of keys

                                                                                                                                                                                L15: 2.66 ref 2 keys in inv. not much trading done

                                                                                                                                                                                L16: 3 keys bought

                                                                                                                                                                                L17: Bought 1?

                                                                                                                                                                                L18: Bought around 7 keys

                                                                                                                                                                                L19: Buying quite many keys


                                                                                                                                                                                SELLERS:

                                                                                                                                                                                None.

                                                                                                                                                                                Why sellers are necessary?

                                                                                                                                                                                Because maybe people can't sell the keys for 4.66 ref anymore so they sell them to buyers, and if the buyers can't sell them, they would need to lower their price. For example, if I buy 100 keys @ 5 ref each, and then buy 10 keys @ 6 ref each, this will be recorded as "proof" and the price would go up. Eventually I would make a fortune by BUYING keys, I would raise the price of my own BP by only buying them. This is why sellers are necessary.


                                                                                                                                                                                Conclusion:

                                                                                                                                                                                Key market is cooling down. People with keys don't want to sell because the buyers only resell, and looks like the sellers can't sell them for higher.


                                                                                                                                                                                NO trades @ 4.77 are made but 4.66 goes averagely but successful sellers are needed. .No sellers make this proof not very true


                                                                                                                                                                                And tf2finance is critisized by everyone, it's a very slim part of the statistics and it's very limited. It's just numbers on the internet, get over it.

                                                                                                                                                                                    stahp rising,we don't need keys to be at 5.11 ref

                                                                                                                                                                                      What Proofs are you guys talking abt????? some fake trades, which is closed without making even a single successfull trades??

                                                                                                                                                                                      Below is examples of Trades you guys call "PROOF" Pfffff


                                                                                                                                                                                      proofNo 1)----> and please tell me how many keys does he bought from the people who commented "Added" 1 day ago in his trade http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10080761

                                                                                                                                                                                      proof no 2) ---->http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10074988 Please tell me how many keys he bought and how much metal he got in his BP


                                                                                                                                                                                      proof No 3)----> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10116850 this guy got shit load of metal in his BP and the number of keys in his BP is even less than the number of guys who added him, especially when one guy said in his trade that he could supply as many keys as he want.


                                                                                                                                                                                      proof no 4)---> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10080463 With what this guy gonna buy keys???? does his metal deposited in backpack.tf's locker???


                                                                                                                                                                                      So pls take ur talking abt "PROOFs" to KG kids, ooh yeah if I make one trade saying "Buying keys for 10 Ref" and ignoring all adds related to that trade will also consider as a "PROOF" and fix key price as 10 Ref?? . And I am not a idiot to belive that backpack.tf admins are dumb enough to trust those proofs, when an average idiot could realize those are fake trades just for manipulating key price. So guys now please give me another story.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Thank you for ripping off my comment, at least we are going the same way

                                                                                                                                                                                        Holy mother of ****


                                                                                                                                                                                        http://tf2finance.com/keys/ - Says 4.79, this can be even higher like people suggested 4.66-4.77 or maybe even 4.77 flat since some of the 4.66 buyers are somewhat unsucessful

                                                                                                                                                                                          Checked finance recently.

                                                                                                                                                                                          4.82 ref at time of post.


                                                                                                                                                                                          This suggestion is already out-dated.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Why are people assuming the market will crash. Its a video game economy with not alot of factors that can cause it to crash..

                                                                                                                                                                                            because most people are pretty darn stupid..and "crash" is a very popular word on the media, so naturally lots of Americans love to say it all the time thinking they got any kind of clue about economics

                                                                                                                                                                                              Haha, yeah. I had the best conversation. Some kid offered maybe 1 bud on my hat that has been sold for two pretty quickly, and he said it's fair because "Buds are crashing" and "the economy is dying" He also told me that he knew a website where he could buy buds for $20 and keys for $1. But he told me the website was a secret.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Lol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I pretty much quit trading a while back, now I downgraded 1 of my unusuals for another + lots of sweets and holy crap I forgot how many illiterate morons are in this game..so sad those are all gonna grow up and fail at getting a job at mc donald's

                                                                                                                                                                                            This is whats going on.

                                                                                                                                                                                            People are selling keys for 5 ref and above in tf2outpost.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Why? They're expecting the key prices from backpack.tf to increase to 5 ref and above. Ironically, all of the evidence from key price suggestions here are taken from tf2outpost with absurd prices. Then the process will repeat, and repeat, and repeat until one day, it will reach over who knows how many ref.

                                                                                                                                                                                            This needs to stop

                                                                                                                                                                                            STOP TAKING OFFERS FROM FREAKING UNREASONABLE KEY PRICES FROM TF2OUTPOST

                                                                                                                                                                                              I agree.


                                                                                                                                                                                              I'd also like to point out keys need a stable price, as 90% of the trades involve using them as currency. Don't believe me?


                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.tf2outpost.com/search/98805536


                                                                                                                                                                                              They need to have a stable price, as for if they don't, the entire market WILL inevitably crash. It's basic economics.


                                                                                                                                                                                              EDIT: Proof in concept, the US Dollar has had a 96% devaluation in 100 years. e.g. $1.00 in 1913 took $22.73 in 2013 to match it's purchasing power. Look where it led to in 2008. I expect to see a similiar occurance to the TF2 market should this trend continue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                People trying to sound like economists.... Obviously the 2008 crash was caused by the banks making bad investments (the housing bubble) and being bailed out, lowering consumer confidence and instantly tanking stocks. (a quick google serch will give you such) How did you come to the conclusion that it was caused by an unstable dollar?

                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes, it is unreasonable but the thing is people are buying at these ridiculous prices They can sell for however much they want but the price wont change if people are not successful in selling. (i can open a trade selling a scrap for 1 bud but that wont make that scrap 1 bud right?)


                                                                                                                                                                                                The people of tf2 stop buying keys at ridiculously high prices!

                                                                                                                                                                                                  That wont happen. Many people have hundreds of idle accounts, but then can only sell keys for paypal. So no matter the price, they will have to buy keys for whatever the cost. When you have over a hundred accounts, paying a few more scrap than the current key price makes little difference, so they can sell in bulk and they don't need to spend their time looking. Its just a shame that the little guy gets pooped on :-S

                                                                                                                                                                                                    and dont forget the people that use sandbox to idle as well :S

                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's who I am talking about!

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I don't idle, and my backpack has never been worth any more than 10 keys at a time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  well, even the prices from the classified listings go above 5 ref

                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/key/1

                                                                                                                                                                                                  May I ask how far your going to keep pushing keys up?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    21903712983612879361283618279361092836182763571825461908273019283719028371928371928361287356712431209847812093713981723891 * asdasdasd Refined.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Seems right

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hes already done it a bunch in the past

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think the keys should go back down. They did rise out of greed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Totally. I was obviously not about how keys are $2 on the steam market and ref $0. Totally. It was totally not the fact that many f2ps bought the premium gift and there are a lot more items/metal getting into the market, totally. Totally not because so many people have idling accounts, making ref worth even lower. Totally.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Excuse me, mister Chief Shoe, but could you please stop using sarcasm on every single reply?

                                                                                                                                                                                                      "1 key 4.8" -suggests .05 increase from 4.55-4.66

                                                                                                                                                                                                        NO NO key must be for 4 ref

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I can see into the future

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "NO NO key must be for 5 ref" comment on a 5.66 suggestion

                                                                                                                                                                                                            The crystal ball NEVER lies!

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Liking and disliking does nothng.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          voting is bent in the sense our votes RARELY count (on key suggestions)

                                                                                                                                                                                                          ....While i dont like to say things without proof, i really think this sight is...


                                                                                                                                                                                                          Beginning to look a lot like Spreadsheet!

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Biased prices everywhere!

                                                                                                                                                                                                          And the feeling that will make you sing

                                                                                                                                                                                                          is the pain that will bring

                                                                                                                                                                                                          An end to TTT FFFFF 22222222


                                                                                                                                                                                                          Or i could be totally wrong, key prices will go down, the economy will recover, and we will all continue to trade happy again. Pick your side.


                                                                                                                                                                                                            (cough cough counterproof)

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Also the little "doesn't have keys in backpack" thing doesn't work because you instantly assume that the keys or ref stay in his backpack for eternity, and that there is no possible way that he could have bought a new item or used it any other way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I believe keys need to be brought down to 4 ref. This is getting ridiculous. You guys who keep raising the price of keys are just being greedy. Bring keys down to 4 ref and just keep them there! We need to have a stable currency and right now we don't. There is no reason to keep raising the prices of keys and I'm not kidding. I propose the following:


                                                                                                                                                                                                            Keys = 4 ref

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bill's hat = 8 keys (10 for white/black/team spirit)

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Buds = 26-27 keys


                                                                                                                                                                                                            Having an unstable currency is dangerous. Do you guys seriously think you can just keep raising the price of keys and everything will be fine? Keys aren't the same as gasoline. Yes the oil companies realized we will not stop buying gas so they can charge $4-$5 per gallon and still have customers. THIS WILL NOT WORK FOR KEYS! If you keep raising the price of keys eventually people will quit buying. I do not know when they will stop buying, but I have quit. I'm not buying keys right now because 4.55-4.77 is ridiculous. This insanity has to stop. Sure everyone who has keys would LOVE to get 1000 ref for a key, then buy keys for 1 scrap, but that is not realistic. Raising the price of keys is just bringing the value of other items down. This is not just about your precious keys, but about the whole Mannconomy. FFS, buds are down to 23 keys. Not even a week ago I bought my first pair of buds for 26.5 keys and I thought that was a good deal because they were worth 26-27 keys. Had I waited I could have gotten them for 3.5 keys lower? I had been working on getting up to 26 keys for buds for 2-3 weeks as they were not fluctuating in price. Now due to this stupid voting system and incredible greed I have taken a 3 key hit on my buds. That is utter shit. A ton of things in my backpack lately have gone down in price. Almost all of my expensive items dropped by the time I sold them for my buds, yet I had purchased them for higher, so I have literally lost multiple keys due to this greed. I don't think you dicks will like it when it happens to you nor will you like when all of this comes crashing down.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bro that bud thing was your fault, they fell around the same time last year (19 keys I believe) as they did the year before. It is not the key's rise's fault that buds are falling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes it is.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                Keys are going up in USD.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Buds are going up in USD...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                Explain that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Buds are not going up as far as I know. And keys just started going up recently, probably because of the banned carders.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              What i read; "WAAAAAH WAAAAAH I MISS THE DAYS WHEN KEYS WERE CHEEEEAPER!!! WHY CAN'T I HANDLE CHANGE?!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hype for keys has not stopped.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Explain to me how would anyone profit. Refined is going down, keys JUST started going up like a week ago. http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/983-sup-with-the-key-jump-in/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "THIS WILL NOT WORK FOR KEYS! If you keep raising the price of keys eventually people will quit buying". If backpack.tf changes the price to stop the rise, then that would be price manipulation. And also "If you keep raising the price of keys eventually people will quit buying" And then what do you think will happen? Everyone will know that keys are losing demand, and in order to successfully be able to sell them, they will lower their price, so more people would buy it. Causing keys to drop in price. Just leave it, and eventually it'll stabilize and start to drop, after rising to the point where there aren't any buyers willing to pay that amount.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    good proof,upvote

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please kill me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        k

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Backpack.tf raises price 1 scrap.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sellers sell keys 1 scrap higher than that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        used as proof on backpack.tf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        price rise again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Just wondering here, but how many of you would die without the key drama going on every hour? Honestly, give it a rest. Once the keys reach a certain point people are just going to buy them from Mann. Co store in bulk to get the massive amounts of ref a key will be worth. Add those keys to the equation and no one is going to continue to pay this price and keys are going to drop hard and then your precious buds will be worth squat because the economically advanced were greedy. This is just my opinion, Have fun ruining the economy 5ever.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No u.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ref is dropping. If anyone is greedy it's valve for not making ref sell-able on the market or keys craftable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The problem is not with refined, Shoe. It has been with traders, and their mannerisms.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The problem IS with refined AND with trades AND other reasons. What I'm fed up with is people claiming only our price updates are to blame.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Your approving of them despite negative reception does not help matters. There are those that have been asking the site to put a cap on the prices, but so long as the site takes the position that they only report the prices and they don't enforce them, the problems will be even more evident.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yeah, we don't agree with those to ask us to manipulate the prices while telling us we are manipulating the prices.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Won't happen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Stop spreading lies about the economy. If you don't fully understand what's going on then don't act like you do and blame whoever you want for it. Even I don't know whats fully going on, all we can do is make assumptions of what's actually happening and perhaps find a solution that doesn't involve manipulating prices like most of you suggest.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you actually care, then I suggest you read:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/992-bud-crash-of-2013/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/641-yet-another-key-price-topic-no-flame-wars-please-discussion-only/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/983-sup-with-the-key-jump-in/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/546-my-stance-on-reason-for-increase-in-key-prices/


                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If all you will do is complain about the key prices and how backpack.tf ruined the game for you, then please let me know so I can ban you for spamming useless comments. We are more than open for discussions on the forums, so please join us there.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm getting tired of people just crying about it and not even posting counter proof. If you blame outpost, then please link us to tf2tp or bazaar!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Would greatly advise people to actually read those links. If you have legitimate problems with the key rise, it would be better to educate yourself and participate in meaningful discussion than mindlessly spam comments complaining about how the admins are corrupt.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The market will not crash!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It's not inflation, it's speculation. If it was inflation the price of most of the things for sale should be rising together.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The key price will not top 10 ref, the price will start to devaluate soon. The thing is: why there are people out there willing to sell keys for 4.33 to tf2wh and not on outpost? Its clear now that some people are using outpost and backpack to profit selling keys. Of course smart people are not buying keys on outpost. You can easily buy some genuine hats with metal, sell it on market and buy some keys for a fair price. Theres no way to create inflation in a market with competition. That's why valve created the market. The thing is, that dumb people still don't know how to use it in their favor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                sold 9 keys for 4.66 in less then a minute in tf2outpost UPVOTE

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This seriously needs to fucking stop. Just because there's proof of people selling at that price doesn't mean you have to set the price to match theirs. Just stop changing the price and people will stop rising the price. Please wouldn't you rather buy and sell keys at 2.33 like the old days? That will never happen if you raise the price everytime you see someone selling a scrap higher. There needs to be a rule that makes a 3 week waiting period when trying to change key prices.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    no....... keys will rise until ---------------------------------------forever bitch

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Keys are basically full price in the Community Market, and someone has to initially buy them. That deflates refined more that it inflates key prices, but the result is the same. Keys get more expensive. +1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      THE RIDE NEVER ENDS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Now we cant consider key as a currency, because people are trying to make huge profit out of key trading, its like "Buying 1$ for .8$ and selling it for 1.1$" LOL. And backpack.tf says they have nothing to do with key price. Ok but you could do other thing, you could stop using key as a currency in backpack.tf pricing. You could use only Refs, Buds like that. Consider key as normal tool like "paint" "name Tag" etc. Do this atleast.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 major flaw with your comparison is that you're comparing fragments to a whole. You're saying "Buying 1 ref for 2 scrap and selling it for 1 ref and 2 scrap" as inflation. It's not, it's just plain bad comparisons. Rather, Keys are a currency, which are inflating or becoming stronger compared to Refined and Buds, as well as USD, much like the Yen, Euro, and other currencies can have their own absolute value and a relative 'strength' compared to other currencies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            key WAS a currency. Now most of the traders are making huge profits out of key trading. and do some investigation abt old days, in those days it was really hard to make 1 scrap profit out of 1 key. Now all you guys saying that "its key getting stronger" "its steam market" "its some international shit" bullshit. and now a days traders are able to make 0.33 Ref out of 1 key easily. All those guys who came here with some "PROOFS" and BP full of Keys and asking to increase the key price are making a0.33 atleast from single key. No offense, let the key price be 10 Ref or 20 Ref or 30 Ref I dont care as long as its not considered as a currency. My humble Request to backpack.tf admins is that please seriously consider abt stopping the use of key as currency

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              did u see a LOL after that "Buying 1$ for .8$ and selling it for 1.1$" ????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              does it mean something to you?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Clicks downvote. Registers as upvote. Something fishy here -_-

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It seems that everybody who wanted to say something has said it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just accept it already, we all know that our votes don't matter, and that you'll accept it anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Why do people keep trying to raise key prices?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                They really should be 2.33 ref like a year ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  well then shouldn't everything return to old prices!?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  let's just keep the same prices for everything, never changing! great idea

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  lets drive it up another scrap :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lies and deceptions.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    those people dont know 'the price'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      someone go make 4.66-4.77 please cuz this suggestion is wrong

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ur both wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          how so.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            people only pay prices like that on outpost... for example I found a couple keys just the other day on a server for 3.4ref ea.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ill sell u keys for 5.2ref ea, add me :D

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lol i have enough already

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              funny how people who have a bunch of keys always want the price to go up... cept me, i know its a bunch of crap and its hurting the economy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4.22-4.66 ref